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03-04-2020, 04:10 PM

I honestly think you have some genetic link to ENGLISH!


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03-04-2020, 04:35 PM

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Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post
I honestly think you have some genetic link to ENGLISH!
Lol. What's cool about you, Spidey, is we can poke each other without going overboard.

It's weird that you mentioned "genetic link". I started listening to a book this week titled, The Sports Gene, by David Epstein. It's about the role genetics plays, along with the 10,000 hour theory, when it comes to skill development in sports. Boring in places, but overall a very interesting book so far. You can only listen to so much data about long distance runners. He's on basketball now, so it's getting better.
  
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03-05-2020, 01:56 AM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
I found this comparison interesting....

On a straight in shot the allowable margin for error when aiming at the exact ob contact point for a center pocket shot is relevant to the ob's margin of error going into the pocket. For example, an ob on the foot spot of a 7ft diamond barbox has a 4.5° window going cleanly into the pocket, a +/- 2.25° margin of error from center pocket.

When measured across the surface of the ob (where the contact point is located) this 4.5° window provides a 2.2mm arc. If the cb strikes the ob anywhere within this arc the ob will go into the pocket. The same 2.2mm arc applies to cut shots also, but as the cut gets progressively thinner this 2.2mm becomes skewed. The change in perspective, as viewed from the cb, makes the 2.2mm arc look smaller. Straight in it looks like 2.2mm, but from a 1/2 ball hit perspective the 2.2mm looks like 1.9mm, and from a thinner 1/4 ball hit perspective it's only 1.5mm. Eventually, as the cut angle approaches 90°, the 2.2mm arc will not even be visible from the cb's perspective.

So, when trying to reference the contact point, the margin for error shrinks as the cut angle increases.

Compare this to fractional aiming, where the width of the ob (2.25") is used to partition the cb into quarter, eighth, or sixteenth aiming point references. This 2.25" never changes, regardless of cut angle/shot perspective. It's a constant. By ignoring the physical surface of the ball (sphere) you can simply focus on the diameter of the ball as a plain circle. Doing this doubles your margin of error when it comes to aiming references.

Fractional aim points have 2 times the allowable margin for error when compared to contact points. A contact point arc of 2mm gives you room for error to be off by no more than 1mm left or right of perfect. The same shot using a fractional aim point allows for 4mm, meaning you can be off by as much 2mm left or right of the fractional aim point needed and still pocket the ball.

Has anyone seen any information like this in any book or online resource? Just curious.
Contact point to contact point aiming also looks at 2 degrees. Fact is any Single point on the rounded object ball surface can only be contacted by a corresponding single point on the cue ball. When creating a variance of one degree on the object ball surface, a corresponding single degree of change must be made on the cue ball surface for the two points to actually contact.

On the topic of angles and ball quarters. Starting with the premise that ~ 90° of angles are available without technique intervention, those angles are encountered within the width of a ball, any more and the cue ball misses the object ball. As a rule of thumb, the half ball cut is about 30°. That means the remaining 60° of angles are found in the remaining horizontal half ball.

Half of that, from half to ¾ ball contain about another 19°, bringing the total from straight in to ¼ ball covering only 49 of the 90 degrees. The last ¼ ball, angled away from you visually, contains the remaining 41 degrees of angles. As noted in the 1:1 ratio of object ball contact to cue ball contact change dynamics in place, each single degree of required angle change must come as a half degree change on each ball. Find those 82 half degrees using fractions.

On a two dimensional model a simple swing over of a degree gives you a degree. That is part of what shooters get wrong when adjusting lines while down. They sweep from a position imagining a slight contact point adjustment on the circle rather than the reality of a round surface. The stroke with only half of the adjustment needed, results in a fat hit if the adjustment was for more cut, or a still thinner than desired contact, if adjusted for less cut.

Fractional aiming is a good introductory tool for creating base references for players. I love the half ball angle. Recognizing fractional aiming’s limitations allows players to make relevant decisions when those limitations are encountered. Planning suggests avoiding leaving thicker cut shots for most situations other than short distance to the hole shots where margin of error covers a significant number of those 41° possible degrees.
  
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03-05-2020, 05:54 AM

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Originally Posted by Imac007 View Post
Contact point to contact point aiming also looks at 2 degrees. Fact is any Single point on the rounded object ball surface can only be contacted by a corresponding single point on the cue ball. When creating a variance of one degree on the object ball surface, a corresponding single degree of change must be made on the cue ball surface for the two points to actually contact.

On the topic of angles and ball quarters. Starting with the premise that ~ 90° of angles are available without technique intervention, those angles are encountered within the width of a ball, any more and the cue ball misses the object ball. As a rule of thumb, the half ball cut is about 30°. That means the remaining 60° of angles are found in the remaining horizontal half ball.

Half of that, from half to ¾ ball contain about another 19°, bringing the total from straight in to ¼ ball covering only 49 of the 90 degrees. The last ¼ ball, angled away from you visually, contains the remaining 41 degrees of angles. As noted in the 1:1 ratio of object ball contact to cue ball contact change dynamics in place, each single degree of required angle change must come as a half degree change on each ball. Find those 82 half degrees using fractions.

On a two dimensional model a simple swing over of a degree gives you a degree. That is part of what shooters get wrong when adjusting lines while down. They sweep from a position imagining a slight contact point adjustment on the circle rather than the reality of a round surface. The stroke with only half of the adjustment needed, results in a fat hit if the adjustment was for more cut, or a still thinner than desired contact, if adjusted for less cut.

Fractional aiming is a good introductory tool for creating base references for players. I love the half ball angle. Recognizing fractional aiming’s limitations allows players to make relevant decisions when those limitations are encountered. Planning suggests avoiding leaving thicker cut shots for most situations other than short distance to the hole shots where margin of error covers a significant number of those 41° possible degrees.
Yes! And unless the player has zero cb control, most shots fall somewhere between 0° and 50°, with an occasional 60° cut.

The better a player gets at playing position, the more refined their pocketing skills become for shots less than about 48 (a quarter-ball shot).

For an object ball a half-table distance from the pocket, the ball has about a 2° window to hit the pocket, a +/- 1° left or right of center pocket. The contact point arc for this ob is about 1mm, which means the player must be able to reference the exact contact point within +/- 0.5mm. The same shot using the fractional ball method allows aiming directly at a point where you can be off by 1mm left or right and still pocket the ball. This equates to about 24 different aim points to cover shots between 0 and 48°, versus 48 different contact points. For shots within 2 or 3 feet from the pocket these numbers are cut in half, meaning only 12 fractional aim lines can cover all cut shots from 0 to 48°.

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03-05-2020, 06:04 AM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Lol. What's cool about you, Spidey, is we can poke each other without going overboard.

It's weird that you mentioned "genetic link". I started listening to a book this week

Is this an oxymoron or typo?

titledThe Sports Gene, by David Epstein. It's about the role genetics plays, along with the 10,000 hour theory, when it comes to skill development in sports. Boring in places, but overall a very interesting book so far. You can only listen to so much data about long distance runners. He's on basketball now, so it's getting better.
I can't wait until you get to Olympic events and the genetics of Bruce Jenner. Fill me in when you get there.


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03-05-2020, 06:32 AM

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Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post
I can't wait until you get to Olympic events and the genetics of Bruce Jenner. Fill me in when you get there.
There have already been a few cases where the author talks about female athletes who were born with a Y chromosome. Males have XY chromosomes and females have XX. When a female has a Y chromosome she can have more testosterone than other females. Also, they have undescended testicles in their uterus. Outside, everything looks normal. Inside, there are dude parts. It's a rare anomaly. I've never read or heard of a case where a man is born without a Y chromosome, but it does happen. I doubt Bruce Jenner is one of them though. Lol

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03-05-2020, 07:30 AM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
There have already been a few cases where the author talks about female athletes who were born with a Y chromosome. Males have XY chromosomes and females have XX. When a female has a Y chromosome she can have more testosterone than other females. Also, they have undescended testicles in their uterus. Outside, everything looks normal. Inside, there are dude parts. It's a rare anomaly. I've never read or heard of a case where a man is born without a Y chromosome, but it does happen. I doubt Bruce Jenner is one of them though. Lol
Sounds like a whole lot more hermaphrodites out there than realized.

I learned about that many years ago when going to a traveling carnival in a small town. It was a side show with the carny barker crying out, "step right up, step right up. See the half man and half woman."

A bunch of us paid our money and went inside the tent where he/she sat on a high stool and pulled up the dress to show what was there. Sure enough there was both.
Kind of underdeveloped for both, but nevertheless it was there.

Google the word and you can learn about it as well as see images. Whodathunk?


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03-06-2020, 06:32 AM

This sketch shows 3 different aiming methods for the same shot, arranged from most complicated to least complicated.

On the left is contact point to contact point, then the middle shot is ghostball, and on the right is fractional aiming.

  
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03-06-2020, 06:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
This sketch shows 3 different aiming methods for the same shot, arranged from most complicated to least complicated.

On the left is contact point to contact point, then the middle shot is ghostball, and on the right is fractional aiming.

Can you make another drawing for the "feel method" and how it's determined, visualized, and linked up between the two balls? What is the fail safe part of it that makes it better to use than one of the above?


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03-06-2020, 08:05 AM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
This sketch shows 3 different aiming methods for the same shot, arranged from most complicated to least complicated.

On the left is contact point to contact point, then the middle shot is ghostball, and on the right is fractional aiming.

Well..........by your drawing......you don’t know anything about ghost ball.

The ghost ball circle does not overlap the OB circle.

The proper representation of the ghost ball and OB is two circles, side by side, with the edges of the circles touching at some point......never ghost ball circle overlapping OB circle.
  
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03-06-2020, 08:31 AM

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Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post
Can you make another drawing for the "feel method" and how it's determined, visualized, and linked up between the two balls? What is the fail safe part of it that makes it better to use than one of the above?
Uh.....no. That's as silly as asking someone to make a drawing that will explain or illustrate how they can drive a car while carry on a conversation or thinking about other things that have nothing to do with driving the car.

Believe it or not, when you consiously repeat the same actions over and over, based on visual input or other sensory input, your brain is being programmed to eventually perform the action without the need of conscious effort. It's an automatic process, and it happens with everyone in any task or skill that is being learned.

This includes aiming pool shots, regardless of what method anyone uses, after enough conscious repetition, conscious fine tuning/adjustments, the process ends up being embedded into the subconscious part of the mind. It becomes automatic. The best anyone can do is explain or show how they learned to it initially, the steps they used that eventually led to the ability to perform automatically without actually having to think about it.

In other words, the best you can do is say, "Here, do this...Stand right here and look there, then there, then lineup here and put you cue in line here, then shoot. It's that simple. Just see and do."

Sure, it's simple to you because you've developed the ability to do it automatically, no longer consciously making any adjustments to make it worj
K. You've done it enough times that those little adjustments eventually became automatic, something you no longer think about. You see, then do. In other words, you consciously privide visual input, which then prompts the subconscious program you so diligently worked to develop. The person you're teaching will have to develop their own subconscious program as well before your instructions materialize into a consistent working method.

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03-06-2020, 08:43 AM

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Originally Posted by duckie View Post
Well..........by your drawing......you don’t know anything about ghost ball.

The ghost ball circle does not overlap the OB circle.

The proper representation of the ghost ball and OB is two circles, side by side, with the edges of the circles touching at some point......never ghost ball circle overlapping OB circle.
That makes no sense to me. Two circles touching side by side, but not overlapping?? You do realize my drawing is not an overhead view, but the view as seen from behind the cb? So you are saying the proper ghostball technique is to treat the spherical ball and ghostball like a simple circles? That seems tough to do while trying to do from behind the cb.

I thought the ghostball was simply imagining where the cb needs to be, which is what I've drawn here. Since it's it doesn't really exist, visually, I suppose we can make up our own idea of where it should be shown when illustrated on paper.

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03-06-2020, 08:57 AM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Uh.....no. That's as silly as asking someone to make a drawing that will explain or illustrate how they can drive a car while carry on a conversation or thinking about other things that have nothing to do with driving the car.

I knew a comparison analogy would be forthcoming right off the bat.
Stick to pool and the balls.


Believe it or not, when you consiously repeat the same actions over and over, based on visual input or other sensory input, your brain is being programmed to eventually perform the action without the need of conscious effort. It's an automatic process, and it happens with everyone in any task or skill that is being learned.

The brain doesn't have eyes. The eyes do the job. Tell me what the eyes see.

This includes aiming pool shots, regardless of what method anyone uses, after enough conscious repetition, conscious fine tuning/adjustments, the process ends up being embedded into the subconscious part of the mind. It becomes automatic. The best anyone can do is explain or show how they learned to it initially, the steps they used that eventually led to the ability to perform automatically without actually having to think about it.

Putting a blindfold on would be automatic. Tell me what the eyes are seeing whether it's been done a billion times or more.

In other words, the best you can do is say, "Here, do this...Stand right here and look there, then there, then lineup here and put you cue in line here, then shoot. It's that simple. Just see and do."

SEE WHAT?

Sure, it's simple to you because you've developed the ability to do it automatically, no longer consciously making any adjustments to make it worj
K. You've done it enough times that those little adjustments eventually became automatic, something you no longer think about. You see, then do. In other words, you consciously privide visual input, which then prompts the subconscious program you so diligently worked to develop. The person you're teaching will have to develop their own subconscious program as well before your instructions materialize into a consistent working method.
What you just wrote above is all total bullshit. NOTHING is automatic in pool! The eyes and thinking are always going hand in hand. Every day isn't same as the day before, the week before, or the month before.

Our vision could be off, we're tired, the nerves aren't the same, the cue feels heavier or lighter, we get sloppy in our stance and PSR which isn't the same, lighting could be different. If pool was as easy as you try to make it seem we'd all be champions.

You are NOT! And neither am I! I know for a fact the pros using a particular method of aiming don't fall back to what they learned as teenagers. They go through the visuals and process which takes a matter of a couple of seconds.

Cut the crap Brian. Tell me what your eyes tell you with the balls in the FEEL method. Not some esoteric mumbo jumbo garbage. Draw an illustration of the finished product like the rest of them. BALLS MUST CONNECT VISUALLY IN THE END.


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03-06-2020, 09:22 AM

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Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post


Cut the crap Brian. Tell me what your eyes tell you with the balls in the FEEL method. Not some esoteric mumbo jumbo garbage. Draw an illustration of the finished product like the rest of them. BALLS MUST CONNECT VISUALLY IN THE END.
I have already. There are three examples. I see the cb and ob relationship, see/visualize where the cb needs to be (based on years of doing it), which is shown in the middle shot in the diagram. Sometimes I just look at the the ob, where it is on the table in ref to the pocket, then aim straight through the cb to a specific point based on the width of the ob, as shown in the last shot in the diagram, the fractional aim shot.
  
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03-06-2020, 10:02 AM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
I have already. There are three examples. I see the cb and ob relationship,

OK. This is better and more like it. Finally something the EYES are seeing and concrete.

see/visualize where the cb needs to be (based on years of doing it), which is shown in the middle shot in the diagram.

You called that ghost ball. Do you really mean telescoping the actual CB forward to see an overlap on the OB or something else. Ghost ball is where the center of the CB is at contact and all imagination. It could be on the ball or off the ball.

Overlapping and telescoping the actual CB and OB together is not GB.


Sometimes I just look at the the ob, where it is on the table in ref to the pocket, then aim straight through the cb to a specific point based on the width of the ob, as shown in the last shot in the diagram, the fractional aim shot.
That's visualization when there's a specific point known by identifying the contact point from standing to the side of the OB in a straight line to the pocket or knowing the numerical matchups from Joe Tucker's contact point aiming system.

It's also knowing the fractions based on what you calculated for the system.

You're HOMING IN visually to something because you're trained to know what to look for. Which is the way it should be. WTF does "feel" mean from start to finish other than when you set up to visualize a unification of the two balls by whatever method, you then think "something looks off" and you change your aim point to something else. That could be called "feel" when in reality it's specifically DOUBT.

It's insanity NOT to use specific visuals, whatever they may be, rather than "feel" or guesswork right from the start of each shot. A system well known and trained to do from years of experience is still and always the basis for accuracy and consistency.

It is KNOWN, TRIED, TRUE and TESTED. Should never require FEEL or DOUBT to make adjustments.


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