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Here's how table climbing RUINS the game of pool!
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recoveryjones
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Here's how table climbing RUINS the game of pool! - 09-14-2006, 09:18 PM

After reading the various threads regarding the Danny Harriman/Archer controversy, I have come to the conclusion that table climbing has the potential to really ruin the game of pool.

FIRSTLY:

Table climbing can cause damage to pool tables.

Cuebacca had pointed this fact out in another (Harriman) thread and I must say, I fully agree with him 100%. I’ve played on tables with dead spots on the rails and let me tell you, it can be pretty annoying, when it costs you undeserved position and in some cases can cost you the match.

Dead spots on the rails occur when the glue that holds the rubber to the rail gets separated. That separation often occurs or is enhanced by people jumping up on tables. Any pool table mechanic or room owner just cringes when people jump up on the rails.

SECONDLY:

Eliminating/ or diminishing the use of “The rest”

Table climbing makes the skill of using “the rest” unnecessary, less important or perhaps obsolete. Using the rest is a skill in itself. Many pool players hate the rest, however, the many good ones; (especially snooker players) have spent countless hours honing their SKILLS using the rest. Proper use of the rest is an acquired SKILL.

I’m all for the Filipino players who play shots left handed or behind their backs (to avoid using the rest), however, because that is also an acquired SKILL. You don’t have to go to mountain climbing school to learn how to climb up on a table, as it takes NO SKILLl at all. ZERO ZILCH! Taking (or diminishing) "the rest" out of the game, bastardizes the sport of pool and I suspect that the pool legends of old would be rolling around in their graves if they knew that this is now happening. Why take a SKILL out of the game? Maybe they should take sand trap shots out of the game of golf?

Furthermore eliminating the need for the rest does not punish people for playing bad position. Take the game on nine ball for instance. It is often very important to return to center (of the table) in the game of nine ball as to avoid using the rest and acquiring position. Players will often opt for a longer more difficult shot (from the center of the table) without the rest as opposed to perhaps an easier shot with the rest. If a player can climb on the table and shoot that easier shot AND shoot it without a rest, then those first options will in some cases be deleted from the game of pool. Players will also come up short for their shape and not be punished for hitting a bad position shot, by climbing up on the table.

Not being punished for playing BAD position is BAD for the game of pool.

Thirdly:
This looks FUKEN terrible!!!
http://photos.internationalpooltour....bum=15&pos=220

Really now folks, does anyone here really want to see these shots like this become commonplace in the game of pool?


Sympathy for the Short people:

Some would argue( PLEASE forgive me Rakumsukr, and other shorties) that short people are punished by not being allowed to climb up on tables and are therefore at a disadvantage. While it is true that short people may have to use the rest more often, I don’t see it affecting to many of the five foot nothing Filipino’s.Those SHORT Filipino's are the best pool players in the world.

It seems to me that Alex had no problem becoming champion of the world in nine ball in 2004 or winning the US Open. Seems to me that Efren is no Wilt Chamberlain either? The Filipino’s have learned to play with the bodies that they were God given. They have adjusted by shooting left handed, behind there backs, or have learned to use the rest and play great posistion. They have learned to cope with their height disadvantage in a SKILLful matter. Once again, CLIMBING ON THE TABLE TAKES NO SKILL.ZERO,ZILCH!!!

Maybe they should make allowances for short people in the sports of Basketball, Volleyball, football,badmintion etc etc.Or how about that poor short outfielder in baseball that can’t leap up and make that homerun saving catch.I don’t see those sports making spring loaded shoes legal to make everyone an equal. I don’t see those athletes complaining about their heights. Sorry, but I’m not trying to me mean here to the short people, but if you don’t like it, take up freakin’ limbo dancing.

IN CLOSING:
I’m not sure whether the IPT has already eliminated table climbing or is intending on doing so? If they don’t, they will be forever bastardizing the game of pool.This is something they should consider seriously.

JMO,
RJ

Ps. If I had have known that Varner and Parica had also done table climbing shots, I wouldn’t have singled out Danny in my song. I would have changed the lyrics to that 70’s tune called,”Hey Hey We’re the Monkee’s” by the band called “The Monkee’s.”My sincerest apologies for missing that.

I was thinking of penning out that tune, however,I may have insulted some pool players (who can’t use a rest) with the above already, so I respectfully decline.

...love ya all, including my enemies.
  
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09-14-2006, 09:36 PM

On a 1peice table as long as you don't rest on the cushions it wouldn't do any harm. Especially a Diamond 1peice (Which is what I believe they are using). There are no slate seams to slip from the weight so I'd say it would be ok in a technical aspect.

And I just looked into the story and I think it's kind of funny. That reminds me of an engine builder named Smokey Yunick. His philosophy was "If it's not in the rule book then it's not against the rules." He'd slap turbos and nitrous on his cars and kill everyone in the race.

I go by the same philosphy. If your goal is to win then you do what you can to win. If you get into a fight and the other guy kicks you in the groin. Well you can cry foul all you want but the reality is that you're the one on the floor crying and he's not.

And isn't what we know as pool today was it not derived from people playing on a tennis court size playing field with what was essentially crokay(Spelling?). And they'd get down on all 4s for certain shots and shoot with the end of the crokay stick?
  
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09-14-2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by recoveryjones
Jesus H. Christ on an iPod! The IPT allows that kind of thing???
  
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09-14-2006, 09:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by recoveryjones
IN CLOSING:
I’m not sure whether the IPT has already eliminated table climbing or is intending on doing so? If they don’t, they will be forever bastardizing the game of pool.This is something they should consider seriously.

JMO,
RJ
Yup, the day after I posted pictures in that other Monkey thread of Gabe and Nick climbin' the tables, the IPT changed the rules.
  
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climbing on the table
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climbing on the table - 09-14-2006, 10:15 PM

I totally agree, climbing table is stupid. Most of the time people climb tables cuz they dont take account the distance you need to bridge and stretch to reach a shot. I totally think its bogus. If I get out of distance I shoot with one hand or use the bridge. It's a joke peopel can get away with getting out of position just cuz they can hop on to the table. I've always been against table climbing. My solution is to play better position.

Ray
  
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09-14-2006, 10:57 PM

These people are actually climbing out onto the actual playing surface?

I've seen people lift their leg up and rest it on a rail but I've never actually seen someone climb onto a table... jeez..
  
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09-14-2006, 11:12 PM

Just a curious question but what happend with keeping one foot on the ground at all times? or is that not part of the IPT?


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09-14-2006, 11:22 PM

Great post, RJ. Very good arguments and also hilarious. I also think the picture looks very bad. However, I don't hold it against Gabe or Danny, or any of them, for doing it though. Its up to the IPT to set the rules, and the players to follow them. In my opinion, a bad rule is separate from a person who acknowledges the rule and uses it to their advantage.

That said, I thought the monkey song was hilarious, and if Danny reads it, I do hope that he enjoys it too. I didn't interpret it as an attack on him, but rather as a joke to make light of the situation.

Thanks, Smittie, for your insight into the risks to the equipment. I hadn't even considered the potential seam-poppage on a 3-piece slate table. Even though the IPT is using 1-piece slate, I do think there is a vague degree of cushion risk, even if the players are cautious of the cushions.

The example that comes to mind is the following: when I use the bridge, sometimes the cue ball is in such a position where it will rebound off the cushion quickly after its struck. In that case, it requires immediately lifting the bridge to get it out of the way of fouling. If one is sitting on the table instead of using the rest, they might need to get out of the way quickly and inadvertantly kick a cushion, for example.

When it comes to equipment damage, the most important thing, IMO, isn't the potential damage to the IPT's equipment (sorry Greg, Kevin). What is more important, in my opinion, is the trickle down effect it could create.

If the IPT succeeds in making pool a spectator sport, the "real rules" will be adopted by the casual bar and poolhall players. Then, as RJ, pointed out, we'd be stuck with dead rails in no time. Owners would be forced to repair their equipment more often, which would drive up table time prices. It wouldn't be good for the owners, players, or even the pros and IPT.

I'm very relieved that they corrected the omitted rule. They should probably take that picture off of their website and deny that this ever happened.
  
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I don't get it
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I don't get it - 09-14-2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by recoveryjones
After reading the various threads regarding the Danny Harriman/Archer controversy, I have come to the conclusion that table climbing has the potential to really ruin the game of pool.

FIRSTLY:

Table climbing can cause damage to pool tables.

Cuebacca had pointed this fact out in another (Harriman) thread and I must say, I fully agree with him 100%. I’ve played on tables with dead spots on the rails and let me tell you, it can be pretty annoying, when it costs you undeserved position and in some cases can cost you the match.

Dead spots on the rails occur when the glue that holds the rubber to the rail gets separated. That separation often occurs or is enhanced by people jumping up on tables. Any pool table mechanic or room owner just cringes when people jump up on the rails.

SECONDLY:

Eliminating/ or diminishing the use of “The rest”

Table climbing makes the skill of using “the rest” unnecessary, less important or perhaps obsolete. Using the rest is a skill in itself. Many pool players hate the rest, however, the many good ones; (especially snooker players) have spent countless hours honing their SKILLS using the rest. Proper use of the rest is an acquired SKILL.

I’m all for the Filipino players who play shots left handed or behind their backs (to avoid using the rest), however, because that is also an acquired SKILL. You don’t have to go to mountain climbing school to learn how to climb up on a table, as it takes NO SKILLl at all. ZERO ZILCH! Taking (or diminishing) "the rest" out of the game, bastardizes the sport of pool and I suspect that the pool legends of old would be rolling around in their graves if they knew that this is now happening. Why take a SKILL out of the game? Maybe they should take sand trap shots out of the game of golf?

Furthermore eliminating the need for the rest does not punish people for playing bad position. Take the game on nine ball for instance. It is often very important to return to center (of the table) in the game of nine ball as to avoid using the rest and acquiring position. Players will often opt for a longer more difficult shot (from the center of the table) without the rest as opposed to perhaps an easier shot with the rest. If a player can climb on the table and shoot that easier shot AND shoot it without a rest, then those first options will in some cases be deleted from the game of pool. Players will also come up short for their shape and not be punished for hitting a bad position shot, by climbing up on the table.

Not being punished for playing BAD position is BAD for the game of pool.

Thirdly:
This looks FUKEN terrible!!!
http://photos.internationalpooltour....bum=15&pos=220

Really now folks, does anyone here really want to see these shots like this become commonplace in the game of pool?


Sympathy for the Short people:

Some would argue( PLEASE forgive me Rakumsukr, and other shorties) that short people are punished by not being allowed to climb up on tables and are therefore at a disadvantage. While it is true that short people may have to use the rest more often, I don’t see it affecting to many of the five foot nothing Filipino’s.Those SHORT Filipino's are the best pool players in the world.

It seems to me that Alex had no problem becoming champion of the world in nine ball in 2004 or winning the US Open. Seems to me that Efren is no Wilt Chamberlain either? The Filipino’s have learned to play with the bodies that they were God given. They have adjusted by shooting left handed, behind there backs, or have learned to use the rest and play great posistion. They have learned to cope with their height disadvantage in a SKILLful matter. Once again, CLIMBING ON THE TABLE TAKES NO SKILL.ZERO,ZILCH!!!

Maybe they should make allowances for short people in the sports of Basketball, Volleyball, football,badmintion etc etc.Or how about that poor short outfielder in baseball that can’t leap up and make that homerun saving catch.I don’t see those sports making spring loaded shoes legal to make everyone an equal. I don’t see those athletes complaining about their heights. Sorry, but I’m not trying to me mean here to the short people, but if you don’t like it, take up freakin’ limbo dancing.

IN CLOSING:
I’m not sure whether the IPT has already eliminated table climbing or is intending on doing so? If they don’t, they will be forever bastardizing the game of pool.This is something they should consider seriously.

JMO,
RJ

Ps. If I had have known that Varner and Parica had also done table climbing shots, I wouldn’t have singled out Danny in my song. I would have changed the lyrics to that 70’s tune called,”Hey Hey We’re the Monkee’s” by the band called “The Monkee’s.”My sincerest apologies for missing that.

I was thinking of penning out that tune, however,I may have insulted some pool players (who can’t use a rest) with the above already, so I respectfully decline.

...love ya all, including my enemies.

How long did it take you to write these last couple of posts regarding this climbing on the table issue. If you just looked a few pages back, you could have learned, in two minutes, that the one foot on the floor rule was implemented the day after the controversy started and that several players had been climbing on the table earlier in the tournament before it became a big deal with Johnny Archer.

What's next, are you gonna start lecturing us on whether Nixon should resign or not?
  
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09-15-2006, 12:27 AM

Hey, Da Poet, stop hasslin "The Poet".

I don't read every single thread posted here, every time I visit.

I'm not all knowing and all seeing.I think I'll leave that job up to God.
RJ

....and Da poet, cause he a know it, tell ya when ya blow it, ah really show it, when you don't know it.
  
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09-15-2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by recoveryjones
Hey, Da Poet, stop hasslin "The Poet".

I don't read every single thread posted here, every time I visit.

I'm not all knowing and all seeing.I think I'll leave that job up to God.
RJ

....and Da poet, cause he a know it, tell ya when ya blow it, ah really show it, when you don't know it.

Aye chihuahua you're annoying sometimes.
  
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table monkeys replys
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table monkeys replys - 09-16-2006, 05:43 AM

I don't care who you are , the last 2 posts are darn funny!!! By the way , I'm old school; One foot on the floor at all times. Azber's are a hoot!! regards, kennyratt
  
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