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Sedog
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Fargo Ratings thoughts - 12-28-2016, 10:48 AM

I would like to express my concerns (thoughts) about the Fargo ratings.
Before I go on, I would like to let everyone know that Mike Page has tried to allay my concerns thru several PMs.
As I understand it, the rating do not become "established" until 200 games are played. In my league, Uspl 9 ball, we have 16 teams and play 16 weeks with no byes. This would give me approx. 72 games per season, so in order to become an established player with a stable rating I would have to play for 2.7 seasons to become established.
At this point I have 39 games played so I guess my rating is very erratic. For example I played a player whose rating was the same as mine, 432, our race was to 45. I won by 17 points. My rating dropped to 418 and my opponents rating dropped to 396, and he had more game played than me.
I am assuming this formula has been well thought out but, it seems to me that the ratings for races cannot be the least bit "fair" when they vary so erratically.
Also, we cannot see the formula for calculating the ratings.
Am I way off base here? What are your thoughts?


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tucson9ball
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12-28-2016, 11:15 AM

I'm assuming that by using "points", you mean balls pocketed?
Fargo is based on games won/loss
If you beat a guy that has the same rating as yourself, it would depend on the game count whether your rating will go up/down.
For example: I'm a 664, if I play somebody rated within 10 points of me in a race to 9, it would probably be an even race. If I was to win 9/8 my rating would stay the same, if I win 9/1, my rating will go up. Or if I lose 9/1, my rating will go down.
It doesn't matter if you run the table, if you dog the 9 and lose, that game is good for your opponent. Fargo doesn't keep track of balls pocketed...



Chris
  
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tucson9ball
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12-28-2016, 11:17 AM

Oh, another way to get games in the system is to play local tournaments. It's very easy for a tournament director to download the software to connect to Fargo. Once downloaded, you simply fill in the scores of each match and when the tourney is finalized the info is sent to Fargo.
I have over 1200 games in Fargo in about 1.5 years.



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12-28-2016, 11:46 AM

What software?
  
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sbpoolleague
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12-28-2016, 11:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tucson9ball View Post
Oh, another way to get games in the system is to play local tournaments. It's very easy for a tournament director to download the software to connect to Fargo. Once downloaded, you simply fill in the scores of each match and when the tourney is finalized the info is sent to Fargo.
I have over 1200 games in Fargo in about 1.5 years.
Software? What software?
  
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cleary
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12-28-2016, 12:00 PM

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Originally Posted by sbpoolleague View Post
Software? What software?
It's an iPhone app called Grinder. Download it.
  
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12-28-2016, 12:11 PM

I should have said 8 teams not 16.
Also, it is points as the 9 ball counts as 14 when you win the game.


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Danimal
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12-28-2016, 12:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleary View Post
It's an iPhone app called Grinder. Download it.
My friend d/l'd it and now he's getting all these strange proposals to match up.

Hey what gives?!?
  
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12-28-2016, 12:40 PM

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My friend d/l'd it and now he's getting all these strange proposals to match up.

Hey what gives?!?
He should ask for the 7-out.
  
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12-28-2016, 12:50 PM

I won 3 to 1.


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12-28-2016, 12:59 PM

IMO, it might be a great rating system but it's a completely ridiculous name and really hard to take serious.

Give it a name that can be universal to pool or even pool related, not named after a town in ND.


-H

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12-28-2016, 01:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedog View Post
I would like to express my concerns (thoughts) about the Fargo ratings.
Before I go on, I would like to let everyone know that Mike Page has tried to allay my concerns thru several PMs.
As I understand it, the rating do not become "established" until 200 games are played. In my league, Uspl 9 ball, we have 16 teams and play 16 weeks with no byes. This would give me approx. 72 games per season, so in order to become an established player with a stable rating I would have to play for 2.7 seasons to become established.
At this point I have 39 games played so I guess my rating is very erratic. For example I played a player whose rating was the same as mine, 432, our race was to 45. I won by 17 points. My rating dropped to 418 and my opponents rating dropped to 396, and he had more game played than me.
Both of your ratings did not go down as a direct results of your one match - that wouldn't make sense. It would have been because the ratings of other players that the two of you had played in the past were adjusted.

Quote:
I am assuming this formula has been well thought out but, it seems to me that the ratings for races cannot be the least bit "fair" when they vary so erratically.
Also, we cannot see the formula for calculating the ratings.
Am I way off base here? What are your thoughts?
The formula is not a secret, it just wouldn't make sense to anyone. It's an Elo system which are very widely used in sports and chess (where they started) and video games etc. One thing that's different about this Fargo rating compared to many Elo ratings is that everyone's scores are re-calculated daily, so the results can change in surprising ways. I don't understand the math, but I know that it is the mathematically optimal way of assigning numbers to reflect wins and losses.
  
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12-28-2016, 02:38 PM

I was watching a match on Youtube the other night between Rodney Morris and SVB. On the bottom of the screen along with the score was the fargo rating for each player. It changed after each game.
  
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12-28-2016, 03:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedog View Post
... we ... play 16 weeks with no byes. This would give me approx. 72 games per season ...
In 16 weeks you play only 72 games, i.e., an average of just 4 games of 9-Ball a week?
  
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12-28-2016, 04:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
In 16 weeks you play only 72 games, i.e., an average of just 4 games of 9-Ball a week?
I would think that would be a pretty typical once-a-week league night, no? But later he corrected it to 8 teams, not 16, so maybe that changes his count.
  
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