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Non-reactive vs reactive
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Non-reactive vs reactive - 07-18-2019, 12:19 PM

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Originally Posted by JazzyJeff87 View Post
I like this thread double O. The examples you gave of people mastering their sports were all reactive type activities. That’s where I do my best without a doubt. I was in a line of work/lifestyle that demanded attention, quick and accurate reactions, commitment to a decision. For me that kind of stuff came naturally, I never liked any of the common American sports but I could step up and play any at a decent level in a short time..I might be a bit small for football though.

Pool is so different it’s unreal. Everything is just sitting there. No quick reactions will be forced from your subconscious. You have all the time in the world to make a mistake.

I definitely practice awkward cueing and I break ugly racks and see what I can do. I set donuts out on tricky racks that I break and I’ll practice that layout until I can run it or find the spot to play a lockup safe. I think these things help me a lot but they are not necessarily taking me to the next level. For me the next level would be more of a mental thing. Staying out of my own way, not sabotaging myself with doubts, keeping in that perfect mind set. It’s a lot easier reacting and responding to something outside yourself than it is to make something happen with stationary objects.
I remember a story about a baseball power hitter going golfing. A golf instructor in the group asked him which he found harder, the golf swing or baseball. He said definitely baseball. His response was to the effect that the golf ball was just sitting there, not traveling upwards of 100 mph. He echoed your sentiment. There are finer distinctions that have been observed in passive targeting as well. Joan Vickers noted that better putters, free throw shooters, etc. gazed longer at targets and scanned target lines more accurately than poor players. She called the practice "quiet eye". The distractions and challenges may be different but as you know situational nuances can be fun too.

Efren Reyes tends to do a similar type of practice. He throws the numbered balls onto the table then with ball in hand he starts to run the balls. If he misses he either pushes the ball missed into a hole and continues, he sets up the ball again to retry, and if he misses again he will retry. If he misses position and even hooks himself, he does a kick or safe as he would in play.

The idea of practicing problem shots is good advice for beginners especially. With beginners I set up a simple shot like a straight in off the spot. Once they are pocketing it regularly I add distracting balls. They don’t interfere but they compete in our consciousness for attention. Balls near the cue shaft, a port between balls for the cue, cue ball or object ball. It starts to bring table conditions into practice.

I’m sure your methods would improve players games. I’m not sure if it will give advanced players the edge on enough games to be the real difference makers. Expert players simplify the game more. Efren didn’t break the balls. I think breaking produces tougher lies. His practice is more in line with making sure he gets out when it’s there. More about developing a flow and the feel for connecting shots. After breaking pros try to rearrange problem balls early in a planned run. If they can’t they often look for that lock up safety you mentioned. I’m sure the breaking out of problem balls is one of your strategies, not specified. The discipline of implementing the strategy is probably the difference maker. Too many very good players will make that extra pot, then leave themselves a tougher safe. It’s like a baseball hitter knowing when not to swing, even at a strike.

Can you name one specific area you worked on with the ugly racks that stood out and was a difference maker later in play? I hear commentators talking about pros taking what the table gives them. Avoiding trying to do too much seems relevant.

Thanks for the appreciative intro.

Last edited by Imac007; 07-18-2019 at 09:05 PM.
  
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07-18-2019, 03:19 PM

My take is probably more fatalistic. I believe you need to be born with talent to make a ball go where you want with another ball, THEN those guys work on it, and get great. Everybody else is on the outside. The pros don't have secrets, that word is only used to sell books and DVDs.
  
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07-18-2019, 05:06 PM

Like any athletic activity related to ‘hand-eye’ coordination, the ability to perform well unconsciously relies on neural synapses only properly formed during the most receptive window (the teen years, when learning capability goes into overdrive). If you have to think much about doing it, you’ve probably already missed the boat.
I don’t believe anyone who first learned the game in a later stage of life, could ever match the skill level of those properly trained within that crucial learning window. Michael Jordan, one of the greatest athletes of all time (who’s thought processes were likely not overly complex when he was sinking baskets), couldn’t learn to hit a fastball.
  
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07-18-2019, 05:42 PM

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Originally Posted by poolnut7879 View Post
Unconscious incompetence
Conscious incompetence
Conscious competence
Unconscious competence
this is the sequence i think most great players go thru
icbw
  
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07-18-2019, 07:59 PM

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Originally Posted by Imac007 View Post
Evergruven
Thanks for the willingness to join the conversation and contribute. Every comment here is appropriate from a particular perspective. There is no analysis paralysis if you know the answers. Experts know what to do in most situations. Not knowing what to do causes over analysis, hesitation and a lack of commitment. Uncertainty lives with ignorance. Every player is at a stage in their development. Iím asking about how the advanced player might makes the transition to expert. Choosing the right differentiator can springboard a player, the wrong focus can put or keep him in the middle of the pack.
In my opinion, your comments here are some of the best ever made in this pool shooting website. (which is indeed rare in this world of crumbling values).
Even more pathetic than pure ignorance is the situation of those "who don't know what they don't know"..........yet they pontificate with all the "know it all" pomposity and arrogance of a wizard. Thereby polluting the minds of other unknowledgeable players and ruining many of them forever.
That's a good insight you have there, mister. I salute you.


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Consistency
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Consistency - 07-19-2019, 09:34 AM

Now Iím going to suggest some differences that might make a difference in taking your game to the next level. Each will be a separate post.

The first is consistency. You can set up a shot, with donuts for example, and repeat it over and over. Itís something you can measure and track. Improvement is trackable. Alex P. talked about allotting a time frame to work on an element of his game. That session is then solely devoted to that. If he has set aside 5 hours to reach a particular standard and he has reached it in only 2 hours, he suspends the session. He went in with an objective. Consistency is about that very thing. Pick a level you want to reach, it must be reachable, from your current level, then focus on the incremental improvement to get there.

It must also have what I call functional intent. The thing you strive to improve (intent), must have some consistent function in the overall performance/execution matrix. Obscure skills might fascinate and engage you, however, rarity of use doesnít translate into everyday consistent performance. One of the key elements is to have a good model of consistency.

Years ago starting from the effect of how we empathize with what we see, a coaching method emerged. When players watch pros in competition, then go and play immediately after, their performance often improves. They execute at a higher level than normal, however, the effect tends to be temporary, wearing off all too soon. This was during the era of the introduction of music videos on tv.

Noting the phenomenon of what I dubbed the music video effect, a different reaction was noted. Listening to a new song on the car radio was different than seeing the video. Once the video is seen, if the song plays on the car radio, images like those in a Miley Cyrus video or an MJ moonwalk, emerge in our consciousness. As coaches we decided to harness this.

Ideal models for players at their current level were hard to sort out. Adult bodies and body types failed to meet what was needed for younger players. Then it dawned on us that consistency involved players themselves become better versions of themselves. We set up video cameras and taped each player performing. The tapes were then edited and a master tape created when the player executed successfully using good technique. A tape highlighting success after success was created. Then a soundtrack was considered.

Super learning techniques used specific brain wave producing music, baroque was ideal. We soon rejected that idea. Our functional intent here was to associate the images with the music to trigger them later. Any music the player liked without already existing visual links would work. Players chose their own soundtrack.

A videotape was created for each player. Then an audio cassette was produced with the execution sounds and soundtrack combined. Players were to watch the tape passively before a competition or practice. During play if all was going fine, players just continued. However, if performance could use a boost, during a break, simply listening to the cassette was suggested. In short, the results were a success.

That process was long and arduous in the era it was devised. With the technology today nearly everything could be thrown together to view and listen on a single handheld device. Earbuds could help players keep in form at the table, during execution, especially with the ability to turn audio on and off easily.

This is just one idea. What do you do to bring out your most consistent self?
  
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emotional temperature
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emotional temperature - 07-19-2019, 05:23 PM

My biggest issue for consistency is emotional temperature. When I learned how to raise and lower it as needed it helped a lot.

Hu
  
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07-19-2019, 07:34 PM

This place is getting really odd lately. Quick, somebody start a thread about chalk.
  
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07-19-2019, 07:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by logical View Post
This place is getting really odd lately. Quick, somebody start a thread about chalk.
or *caulk*- ?


A billiard table is that richest of metaphors,
by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

-- from grissim's "billiards"
  
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07-20-2019, 01:07 AM

[QUOTE=Black-Balled;6439268]Pool is all about execution, imo.

My exact thoughts. Execution under pressure is what separates the men from the boys. No matter what you know it's being able to deliver consistently when it counts.

You see great practice players who never test themselves. We need real competition to be the proving ground.
  
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07-20-2019, 06:30 AM

Iíve thought that competition is a measure of how well you practice....

The final level is all mental. There will be a point when you will have all the necessary skills to master pool, the mental aspect is now the hinderance.

And that is the hardest aspect of pool. The mental aspect is what causes you to play great one day and not know which end of the cue to use the next. Very frustrating.

Mastering pool.........takes a lot of quality time at the table and also away from it.

The mind does not know what is real and what is unreal. You can fool it. If you learn how to properly use visualization away from the table, this can help improve your game.

Find a quiet spot at home, get relaxed. Now, use your imagination to visualize yourself playing pool and playing great. Make this visualization as real as possible. Imagine the noises of a pool room, the feel of the cloth, the sounds a balls hitting, the feel of your stroke, the feel of the cue contact the CB and so on.
  
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Quality contribution.
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Quality contribution. - 07-20-2019, 07:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie View Post
Iíve thought that competition is a measure of how well you practice....

The final level is all mental. There will be a point when you will have all the necessary skills to master pool, the mental aspect is now the hinderance.

And that is the hardest aspect of pool. The mental aspect is what causes you to play great one day and not know which end of the cue to use the next. Very frustrating.

Mastering pool.........takes a lot of quality time at the table and also away from it.

The mind does not know what is real and what is unreal. You can fool it. If you learn how to properly use visualization away from the table, this can help improve your game.

Find a quiet spot at home, get relaxed. Now, use your imagination to visualize yourself playing pool and playing great. Make this visualization as real as possible. Imagine the noises of a pool room, the feel of the cloth, the sounds a balls hitting, the feel of your stroke, the feel of the cue contact the CB and so on.
I had a session with a young player yesterday. One element I stressed was the need to approach each drill or practice situation as if it were a game. So many coaches in some many venues are disappointed that players didnít take the practice into the game. My message to the young player was that approach is backwards. "You need to take the game into the practice."

While the function of practicing skills in isolation allows you to focus on individual aspects without distractions, the intent should be to then add the distractions, plus find the right mental frame so you can execute in a game situation. The best type of question to ask yourself when in a game situation is

"What does the shot look like when itís done right?"

Without an answer to that question in mind, you are not ready to shoot, yet.
  
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07-20-2019, 07:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imac007 View Post
I had a session with a young player yesterday. One element I stressed was the need to approach each drill or practice situation as if it were a game. So many coaches in some many venues are disappointed that players didnít take the practice into the game. My message to the young player was that approach is backwards. "You need to take the game into the practice."
While the function of practicing skills in isolation allows you to focus on individual aspects without distractions, the intent should be to then add the distractions, plus find the right mental frame so you can execute in a game situation. The best type of question to ask yourself when in a game situation is
"What does the shot look like when itís done right?"
Without an answer to that question in mind, you are not ready to shoot, yet.
EXCELLENT !!!!!!


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Another quality response
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Another quality response - 07-20-2019, 07:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootingArts View Post
My biggest issue for consistency is emotional temperature. When I learned how to raise and lower it as needed it helped a lot.

Hu
Absolutely right. This whole process is about controlling your attention. It’s knowing what stress does as it increases and how to combat its effects. A sport scientist Dr. Robert Nideffer did work in this area. He wrote a book call A.C.T Attention Control Training. His assessment tools and training are used in all types of situations. Police, Emergency Responders, Surgeons, Elite Athletes all benefit from controlling their arousal level to keep them in optimal alertness. Here is a summary of some stress effects and counter measures that can be used in pool.

Stress Challenges
Attention narrows and internalizes as stress increases
The perceived size of the balls and hole gets smaller
External details are lost in the process

Countermeasures
Switch your focus to external details. Vocalize them if you need to to get your focus outwards.

Object size is relative to what it is compared. It’s also relative to distance.
Get close to the object ball. Make sure it’s surface is clean and the contact area is nick free. Check the ball paths for chalk, lint, any debris.

Pros do this on key shots. Balls and pockets loom large next to the little stuff.

Details that emerged when closer to the object ball can be held in mind as you go back to the cue ball and target line. All these details should give your body a feel for what it needs to do.

Trust it to execute. Settle quietly so that the target can be seen clearly.

Let your body dictate the timing. It will go when it’s ready. Hold your gaze on target until it does.

Last edited by Imac007; 07-20-2019 at 08:02 AM.
  
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07-20-2019, 08:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imac007 View Post
Now Iím going to suggest some differences that might make a difference in taking your game to the next level. Each will be a separate post.
The first is consistency. You can set up a shot, with donuts for example, and repeat it over and over. Itís something you can measure and track. Improvement is trackable. Alex P. talked about allotting a time frame to work on an element of his game. That session is then solely devoted to that. If he has set aside 5 hours to reach a particular standard and he has reached it in only 2 hours, he suspends the session. He went in with an objective. Consistency is about that very thing. Pick a level you want to reach, it must be reachable, from your current level, then focus on the incremental improvement to get there.
It must also have what I call functional intent. The thing you strive to improve (intent), must have some consistent function in the overall performance/execution matrix. Obscure skills might fascinate and engage you, however, rarity of use doesnít translate into everyday consistent performance. One of the key elements is to have a good model of consistency.
Years ago starting from the effect of how we empathize with what we see, a coaching method emerged. When players watch pros in competition, then go and play immediately after, their performance often improves. They execute at a higher level than normal, however, the effect tends to be temporary, wearing off all too soon. This was during the era of the introduction of music videos on tv.
Noting the phenomenon of what I dubbed the music video effect, a different reaction was noted. Listening to a new song on the car radio was different than seeing the video. Once the video is seen, if the song plays on the car radio, images like those in a Miley Cyrus video or an MJ moonwalk, emerge in our consciousness. As coaches we decided to harness this.
Ideal models for players at their current level were hard to sort out. Adult bodies and body types failed to meet what was needed for younger players. Then it dawned on us that consistency involved players themselves become better versions of themselves. We set up video cameras and taped each player performing. The tapes were then edited and a master tape created when the player executed successfully using good technique. A tape highlighting success after success was created. Then a soundtrack was considered.
Super learning techniques used specific brain wave producing music, baroque was ideal. We soon rejected that idea. Our functional intent here was to associate the images with the music to trigger them later. Any music the player liked without already existing visual links would work. Players chose their own soundtrack.
A videotape was created for each player. Then an audio cassette was produced with the execution sounds and soundtrack combined. Players were to watch the tape passively before a competition or practice. During play if all was going fine, players just continued. However, if performance could use a boost, during a break, simply listening to the cassette was suggested. In short, the results were a success.
That process was long and arduous in the era it was devised. With the technology today nearly everything could be thrown together to view and listen on a single handheld device. Earbuds could help players keep in form at the table, during execution, especially with the ability to turn audio on and off easily.
This is just one idea. What do you do to bring out your most consistent self?
EXCELLENT
I know nothing about big time golf.
However I've met some of the best at various social functions and to the man, they maintain that your thoughts are critical to rising above the pack.
(Most pool players cannot grasp that....they're too busy trying to find some way to rob somebody in a trap, do another line of blow, or get into some girl's pants.)


***Inside every 'progressive' there exists a totalitarian fighting to get out and tell everyone how to live their lives
  
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