Cutting shafts
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jokers_wild96
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Cutting shafts - 10-26-2018, 10:24 AM

As I'm cutting the taper on the shafts it's not cutting round. The one I'm doing now is still oversized but spinning it slowly in the middle the shaft is oval. Using a Hightower lathe with 6 wing cutter and power feed. What's happening and how do I fix it/do it right. Thanks for any and all help.
  
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str8eight
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10-26-2018, 10:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokers_wild96 View Post
As I'm cutting the taper on the shafts it's not cutting round. The one I'm doing now is still oversized but spinning it slowly in the middle the shaft is oval. Using a Hightower lathe with 6 wing cutter and power feed. What's happening and how do I fix it/do it right. Thanks for any and all help.
What is your depth of cut? How long does it take the cutter to go from the joint to the tip of the shaft?

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10-26-2018, 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokers_wild96 View Post
As I'm cutting the taper on the shafts it's not cutting round. The one I'm doing now is still oversized but spinning it slowly in the middle the shaft is oval. Using a Hightower lathe with 6 wing cutter and power feed. What's happening and how do I fix it/do it right. Thanks for any and all help.
Try 200 RPM and 10 inches per minute of feed.
Needless to say, the bit has to be sharp and router not running out like crazy.

Last edited by JoeyInCali; 10-26-2018 at 11:34 AM.
  
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10-26-2018, 01:21 PM

Both ends are between centers? Centers are not too tight, but not too loose? Can happen with overly constrained shaft, such as one end in collet or chuck, other on a center. When it is being shaped, shaft can't have any influence on it other than trying to find it's own equilibrium as stock is removed. But it can't be rattling in the centers, either.

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10-27-2018, 08:29 AM

It sound like you may have too much end pressure on the shaft. That can cause the shaft to bow slightly and the end result can be exactly what you are experiencing. Reduce the pressure you apply with your tailstock and see if that helps.


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10-27-2018, 09:13 AM

I use a dead center in the head stock with out a spur driver.... the shaft spins on friction... you can easily stop it from spinning with just your fingers............ in the tail stock I use a taig live center with a spring point...... I tighten the tail stock point and then back it off about 1/8 in............ no pressure on the shaft............. also I only cut shafts from right to left............ seems to give a smoother cut.... I spin at 280 to 300 rpm and feed the cutter at 10 ipm........... cuts are .010 to .020 at a time

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10-27-2018, 11:01 AM

Kim - for those of us who cant see the pictures but might be able to pick up a tip:

Quote:
... also I only cut shafts from right to left............ seems to give a smoother cut..
are you cutting from small to large or vice versa?

Are you climb cutting (cutter hits on the portion not yet cut and rotates out in direction already cut, iow cutting backwards) or conventional cutting (cutter hits at the end of the already cut, enters the waste, and exits out of the waste)?

FWIW, i kind of lean toward conventional cut as less vibration, though maybe not as smooth wood finish. Hadn't thought much about which direction for cutting path. Thinking about it now, start big, travel to small seems like it would be better - is that what you do ?

Thanks!
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10-27-2018, 12:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssonerai View Post
Kim - for those of us who cant see the pictures but might be able to pick up a tip:



are you cutting from small to large or vice versa?

Are you climb cutting (cutter hits on the portion not yet cut and rotates out in direction already cut, iow cutting backwards) or conventional cutting (cutter hits at the end of the already cut, enters the waste, and exits out of the waste)?

FWIW, i kind of lean toward conventional cut as less vibration, though maybe not as smooth wood finish. Hadn't thought much about which direction for cutting path. Thinking about it now, start big, travel to small seems like it would be better - is that what you do ?

Thanks!
smt

Going off pure assumption, but beings as the chuck is going to be on the left and it’s a good rule of thumb to ‘drive’ stock from the thick. I would assume he’s cutting from tip to joint. Assuming he’s using a standard bit, the cutting edge is then ‘digging’ into the shaft as opposed to ‘pulling’ the chip off.
  
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10-28-2018, 04:40 AM

If all the cutting wings of a 6 wing cutter are not ground correctly it can give you troubles.Try using a new 3/4 mortising bit instead of the 6 wing cutter. Take 2 passes at .005 and see it your shaft comes back to round. Go with the advise already given and keep light pressure from your tailstock, that is the most common cause of oval in the center of the shaft, but an aggressive cutting depth on a six wing cutter will also deflect a shaft blank because the cutter is in contact with the wood so much of the time. Slim tapers are affected by this more just because they are more prone to deflection.

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Last edited by aphelps1; 10-28-2018 at 04:43 AM.
  
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whammo57
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10-28-2018, 05:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by aphelps1 View Post
If all the cutting wings of a 6 wing cutter are not ground correctly it can give you troubles.Try using a new 3/4 mortising bit instead of the 6 wing cutter. Take 2 passes at .005 and see it your shaft comes back to round. Go with the advise already given and keep light pressure from your tailstock, that is the most common cause of oval in the center of the shaft, but an aggressive cutting depth on a six wing cutter will also deflect a shaft blank because the cutter is in contact with the wood so much of the time. Slim tapers are affected by this more just because they are more prone to deflection.

Alan

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just to clarify.... I cut from tip to joint..... right to left.... joint end is at the head stock.... I do climb milling because I get less vibration..... that's just how my machine works ... yours might be different.... also when you line up the 6 wing cutter to the shaft center line,,,,, put it a little below center so you are not cutting with the whole tooth.... it will run a little smoother.............. make sure that your bearing follower on the taper bar is not bouncing with vibration.... I add a couple rubber bands to help the spring push tighter on the taper bar

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10-28-2018, 06:37 AM

Kim,
We cut the same way. I get better cuts with the sharp mortising bits. Maybe my 6 wing cutter was junk, IDK. I do run faster than you, 420 rpm on the lathe with 23 IPM travel for rough cut. I run about 17 IPM for finish. That's where my machine like to cut. I've tried slower, but didn't get better results. No right or wrong here, just some information sharing.

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10-28-2018, 10:52 AM

Quote:
just to clarify.... I cut from tip to joint..... right to left.... joint end is at the head stock.... I do climb milling because I get less vibration..... that's just how my machine works ... yours might be different..
Thanks, I'll have to try that.
Like you i currently cut from tip toward joint, but have not tried climb cutting.
Makes sense that it would be smoother, but for some reason i thought it might lead to more vibration.

Adapted a different machine than most, set of centers on a planer table and a router on the rail/toolslide.

Thanks!
smt
  
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10-28-2018, 10:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by aphelps1 View Post
If all the cutting wings of a 6 wing cutter are not ground correctly it can give you troubles.Try using a new 3/4 mortising bit instead of the 6 wing cutter. Take 2 passes at .005 and see it your shaft comes back to round. Go with the advise already given and keep light pressure from your tailstock, that is the most common cause of oval in the center of the shaft, but an aggressive cutting depth on a six wing cutter will also deflect a shaft blank because the cutter is in contact with the wood so much of the time. Slim tapers are affected by this more just because they are more prone to deflection.

Alan

Phelps Custom Cues
I use 6 wing cutters and found they cut the best if you extend the bit out of the router so its cutting the wood with the corner of the blades and not the larger flat center. In other words minimize the surface contact area of the cutter and the wood. You are not cutting a drawer dado, you're skimming wood in motion. Experiment with this setting until you get the smoothest results on thicker rough cuts and it will continue to cut smoothly as the shaft gets thinner on subsequent cuts.

JC


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10-28-2018, 11:13 AM

I cut with a 3-wing bits.
Less than .100 kerf.
Your mileage might vary.
My taper machine works on gravity.
The spindle is parallel to the taper groove. No springs.
On that note, if you are still using a router , you might wanna consider VFD and air cooled spindle .
They are so cheap now on Ebay, you are suffering for saving a few dollars .
Routers are so much noisier have so much run-out.
Reserve them for roughing and coning .https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5KW-110V-...xxlq:rk:6:pf:0
110V vfd with a speed knob . That is ridiculously cheap.
Air cooled spindles can be had for $150 or less.
  
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10-28-2018, 01:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
I cut with a 3-wing bits.
Less than .100 kerf.
Your mileage might vary.
My taper machine works on gravity.
The spindle is parallel to the taper groove. No springs.
On that note, if you are still using a router , you might wanna consider VFD and air cooled spindle .
They are so cheap now on Ebay, you are suffering for saving a few dollars .
Routers are so much noisier have so much run-out.
Reserve them for roughing and coning .https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5KW-110V-...xxlq:rk:6:pf:0
110V vfd with a speed knob . That is ridiculously cheap.
Air cooled spindles can be had for $150 or less.
Do you have a link to these spindles? Can the motor be powered and controlled with a gecko540 and 48v power supply controller without the VFD.

Thanks,

JC


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Last edited by JC; 10-28-2018 at 02:31 PM. Reason: Clarify the question
  
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