Finish Lifting
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Finish Lifting - 04-20-2019, 09:54 AM

Although I'm still a beginning cue maker with plenty to learn I feel like I have my process' down fairly well having now built well over 100 cues. I built a cue for a local friend about 4 years ago and the finish peeled on it badly. It was one of my fairly early cues so I got it back and refinished it about a year and a half ago and now it did it again.

It's a cocobolo forearm cue with a chatke viga handle and I used Chris' cue coat on it both times. I have built quite a few cues now using cocobolo and cue coat with zero other problems that I'm aware of. A few even for local players that I get a chance to inspect regularly to see how they are aging.

My friend isn't even blaming me because he admits he's hard on his cues but he has some other cues although beat up some look nothing like this. It's like the epoxy never made a bond with the wood underneath and is lifting in large areas.

Could it be something with this individual piece of cocobolo? Although it's peeling on the handle some too.

I have it back and am going to finish it again for him at no cost for the second time, just don't want my cues out there looking shabby like this. But I'm afraid it might happen again if I don't do something different. Any ideas or similar experience wold be appreciated.

Thanks,

JC

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str8eight
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04-20-2019, 10:06 AM

I have used cue coat as a sealer with no issues and still use epoxy for that purpose. I sand with 220 before I seal the cue and since using epoxy to seal I've been alright. Could it possibly be that since cocobolo is a oily wood that it's not adhering properly? Maybe clean real good with denatured alcohol before applying the clear coat?

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04-20-2019, 10:16 AM

Acetone, acetone, acetone.


  
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04-20-2019, 10:54 AM

I can think of twenty other cues I have used cocobolo and cue coat together and none of them are peeling like this. It's also peeling from the chatke viga handle in places which is unlikely place for him to have scraped it on a valley table.

I have used lacquer thinner or denatured alcohol to wipe down prior to the first seal coat on all my cues. Maybe wrong stuff? Have not tried acetone.

There seems to be something different about this cue as I have done the same thing on all my others. That's what I'm trying to think of what it could be that's unique to this cue.

JC


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04-20-2019, 11:01 AM

sand it down to the wood..... use 100 grit and don't finish with anything finer than 220..... wipe it with alcohol, lacquer thinner or acetone........ be careful not to wipe the coco oil onto any other part of the cue or rings............. the cue cote is a pretty good epoxy....... when you put on the base coat...... use a rubber glove spin it and squeeze and rub it
in hard............................. I like Max 1618 epoxy for a base coat....... never had it lift or peel...........

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04-20-2019, 11:36 AM

Sand to 220. For oily woods, use acetone on a paper towel until you are getting no more color from the wood onto the towel. Immediately put on the epoxy base coat. Oh, put the paper towel(s) in a metal burn can outside when you are done.

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04-20-2019, 11:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC View Post
I can think of twenty other cues I have used cocobolo and cue coat together and none of them are peeling like this. It's also peeling from the chatke viga handle in places which is unlikely place for him to have scraped it on a valley table.

I have used lacquer thinner or denatured alcohol to wipe down prior to the first seal coat on all my cues. Maybe wrong stuff? Have not tried acetone.

There seems to be something different about this cue as I have done the same thing on all my others. That's what I'm trying to think of what it could be that's unique to this cue.

JC
Well, that one bleeds like an elephant on a period.

Cue Cote or any epoxy finisher is only good for 3 months on your shelf.
Date them and don't use them for finish after that .
Might still be good for threaded parts with some powder b/c threaded parts are mechanically bonded .
But, for finish, they have to be full strength .

PS
Sand with a good 180 grit lengthwise.
If you spin sand with coarser than 220, you'll know what happens.


  
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04-20-2019, 02:49 PM

Lots of oil in that wood. Follow the other suggestions here for sanding, acetone clean till no bleeding on paper towel(wear respirator), epoxy, and finish.

Probably won't have to do this again.
  
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04-20-2019, 02:51 PM

I have always use denatured alcohol on Cocobolo and West system epoxy. No experience with Cue Cote. if I was having a peeling problem then I would sand down to the wood 400 grit, use sealer and then first coat of epoxy.

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04-20-2019, 04:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
Acetone, acetone, acetone.

Joey is absolutely correct.

The acetone will remove the oil from the substrate and allow the adhesion coat to bond.



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04-21-2019, 11:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
Well, that one bleeds like an elephant on a period.

Cue Cote or any epoxy finisher is only good for 3 months on your shelf.
Date them and don't use them for finish after that .
Might still be good for threaded parts with some powder b/c threaded parts are mechanically bonded .
But, for finish, they have to be full strength .

PS
Sand with a good 180 grit lengthwise.
If you spin sand with coarser than 220, you'll know what happens.
3 months?? How do you figure?

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04-21-2019, 12:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by str8eight View Post
3 months?? How do you figure?

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Experience.
Some turn yellow or brown like the West 207.
BSI, I've found to weaken after 3 months.
So, I buy the smallest bottle and X them for base coat after 3 months.


  
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04-21-2019, 01:50 PM

Acetone, as has been mentioned.

Some cheap lacquer thinners actually have oil residue.
Alcohol works, but not as good as acetone.

Re: WEST - I only buy the resin in 5's, so the hardeners in 1 gal. Also as has been mentioned, the hardeners esp 205 (fast) will turn red in less than a year, so i can't use it on white woods that show. However, back in the 80's WEST did tests on aged resins and hardeners since people were becoming concerned about the color and slight thickening. What they found was that the aged actually was a tiny bit stronger. It just does not look good except on mahogany etc.

PS, The Gougeon Bros developed WEST to serve their own high-tech needs. They've always been about solid science and development. Besides DIN iceboats at the beginning, and all the off-shore vessels they built over the years, they made wind turbine blades for GE for years. (Don't know if they still do.) Even if they might have some self interest, I trust their research. Actually, thinking about it, it would be in their commercial interest to tell you to throw it away and buy some more.

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04-21-2019, 01:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
Experience.
Some turn yellow or brown like the West 207.
BSI, I've found to weaken after 3 months.
So, I buy the smallest bottle and X them for base coat after 3 months.
You are right it does turn color but not if you give it minimum air exposure

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