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gregcantrall
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07-25-2019, 10:39 AM

I have never encountered a rule set that allows coaching only if you are the opponent. The rule set I am familiar with does not allow coaching nor does it allow interrupting my opponent when he is shooting.

So you throw in the word etiquette. Well I guess etiquette trumps the rules.🥴
  
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  (#62)
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07-25-2019, 11:09 AM

I know the OP framed the situation by telling us the discrepancy in skill level. This is superfluous. Is the rule is you must tell your opponent when he is about to do something dumb or not? Are we doing the "unwrtten rule" thing? I would say if it matters that much, write it down. What are you going to do, make it a foul on the guy NOT shooting when he doesn't say something? Also, you are assuming his, "I have no idea what your doing when you line the 7 up." Isn't valid, to me this is the ONLY valid thing to say. I can't imagine correcting my opponent when he ISN"T about to do what we all assume he is going to do. No! If you want to embarrass yourself, go for it, but you won't be getting any help from me.
  
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  (#63)
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07-25-2019, 11:29 AM

The mental part of pool is just as challenging and important as the physical. If my opponent's mental game starts to break down toward the end of the night and he starts shooting at the wrong balls or fouling by losing focus and miscuing then maybe I will win because I have prepared more or worked harder. Why should someone put in the time and effort to develop a strong mental game and then turn that advantage over when it finally starts to pay off?

Similar to Chess - would you put in the time and effort to develop strong Chess skills and then, in the middle of competition, stop your opponent before he makes a move that loses him the game?
  
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  (#64)
jimmyco
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07-25-2019, 12:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxictom View Post
I have read through this entire thread and I'm a little confused. Am I missing something here? The OP said the guy had ball in hand on the 6. Then goes on to say he pocketed the 6. Where is the foul?
I noticed as well.

But since the OP had already edited his post at least once, I decided to have a little integrity and not correct. There were afterall four balls on the table and the apparent confusion carried over into his post.


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  (#65)
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07-25-2019, 01:08 PM

What people are not addressing is that an A player fouled on the 5 ball. It is tied 3-3

and going to five is tough, especially if a foul means your opponent is now on the hill.

I would not say anything, being that I made a mistake, and paid for it. If my opponent

does the same thing it doesn't matter, now if the score were different, say a race to seven

I see no reason to give a heads up. Play the score. That is the difference in the set. If

you were both on the hill, I don't think many who are advocating telling the incoming

player of his mistake would actually do it. And if you did, and lost it might be your last

time to do it. I lose all the time to mental errors, and learn each time one is made. So

will the opponent who shot the wrong ball.
  
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  (#66)
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07-25-2019, 01:27 PM

I guess it depends on who the tournament director is for the situation. But if player A knew he was shooting the wrong shot and immediately pointed it out as if he knew beforehand that would be unsportsmanlike conduct and loss of game. Maybe I'm wrong. I guess it is the opinion as you say of the tournament director.
  
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  (#67)
ChrisinNC
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07-25-2019, 01:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
I don't take issue with anyone that wants to correct their opponent's error. If they want to make that gesture as a courtesy, I'm fine with them choosing to do so.

Where I have an issue is if someone were to judge me as having a 'lack of character' for not doing the same. I play competitive pool and I play by the rules. I don't cheat. I play by the same rules as my opponent, and we don't correct each other's mistakes.

For someone to invent their own standards of sportsmanship and then criticize me for not living up to them doesn't seem right.

But this is the world we live in. I've accepted that if I play competitive pool publicly then people will have critical opinions about me and my decisions. The key for me is to try my absolute hardest to be a good sport and good person, then the criticism rolls off my back because I know I've done my best. The same way I try my hardest at the table to play my best pool and if railbirds want to criticize me then I can tune that out.

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I guess what bothers me more than the opponent having not warned the shooter in advance of their critical mistake, is that the opponent watched it all happen, then immediately called the foul, then felt the need to tell their opponent that they didn't realize they were about to shoot at the wrong ball until it was too late or they would have stopped them from doing it.

I have absolutely no problem with a player who feels it's not their responsibility to warn you that you're about to shoot at the wrong ball in this situation, but don't then try to come across as a nice guy by claiming to the player who has just shot at the wrong ball that they would have stopped you if they'd realized what you were doing, when they know that's an outright lie. Just take your BIH and keep quiet.

Last edited by ChrisinNC; 07-25-2019 at 01:56 PM. Reason: edit
  
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Old
  (#68)
ChrisinNC
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07-25-2019, 01:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxictom View Post
I have read through this entire thread and I'm a little confused. Am I missing something here? The OP said the guy had ball in hand on the 6. Then goes on to say he pocketed the 6. Where is the foul?
Sorry, I just re-read through my original post and just corrected it - thanks. He had BIH on the 6-ball, but set up and shot the 7-ball by mistake, and then was immediately told by his opponent that he'd just shot at the wrong ball.
  
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  (#69)
Black-Balled
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07-25-2019, 02:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
I guess what bothers me more than the opponent having not warned the shooter in advance of their critical mistake, is that the opponent watched it all happen, then immediately called the foul, then felt the need to tell their opponent that they didn't realize they were about to shoot at the wrong ball until it was too late or they would have stopped them from doing it.

I have absolutely no problem with a player who feels it's not their responsibility to warn you that you're about to shoot at the wrong ball in this situation, but don't then try to come across as a nice guy by claiming to the player who has just shot at the wrong ball that they would have stopped you if they'd realized what you were doing, when they know that's an outright lie. Just take your BIH and keep quiet.
Man, I am not following your need to judge here.

What if a guy has BIH on the 7, with the 8&9 tied up? Is it now the other guys responsibility to advise the opponent to break the 8&9 out?

And the issue at hand is not whether a guy tried to sound like a good guy or not.
  
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  (#70)
jimmyco
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07-25-2019, 03:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
Man, I am not following your need to judge here.
...

...
You must be new.


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  (#71)
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07-25-2019, 03:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
Man, I am not following your need to judge here.

What if a guy has BIH on the 7, with the 8&9 tied up? Is it now the other guys responsibility to advise the opponent to break the 8&9 out?

And the issue at hand is not whether a guy tried to sound like a good guy or not.
This is exactly right. Where does the slippery slope end? Oh your breaking on the left side of the table? Its been dry all night...better try the right side. I mean come on. Any rule that forces you to help your opponent beat you is a stupid rule.
  
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the score
Old
  (#72)
ShootingArts
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the score - 07-25-2019, 03:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by noMoreSchon View Post
What people are not addressing is that an A player fouled on the 5 ball. It is tied 3-3

and going to five is tough, especially if a foul means your opponent is now on the hill.

I would not say anything, being that I made a mistake, and paid for it. If my opponent

does the same thing it doesn't matter, now if the score were different, say a race to seven

I see no reason to give a heads up. Play the score. That is the difference in the set. If

you were both on the hill, I don't think many who are advocating telling the incoming

player of his mistake would actually do it. And if you did, and lost it might be your last

time to do it. I lose all the time to mental errors, and learn each time one is made. So

will the opponent who shot the wrong ball.


The score is 3-3 with a two game spot. That means the A player has won three games and the C player has won one. Looks to me like the odds still favor the A player. Can't see the table layout of course but the C player has to run four balls then break and run to shut out the A player assuming no early nine. If the A player gets back to the table he should be able to control it pretty easily.

Hu
  
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  (#73)
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07-25-2019, 03:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy8000 View Post
Pretty sure this is still the case in APA...



In 8-ball, if a player has solids but starts shooting stripes, the foul is only recognized if called by one of the players. The opponent can actually allow the shooter to continue to shoot the wrong balls and then call the foul later - either when they miss, are getting ready to shoot the 8 for the win, etc. By the same token, if the shooter realizes they've shot the wrong ball (stripes in this case, as above), they can proceed to shoot in a solid at which point it becomes too late for the opponent to call the foul.



So much room for abuse of the spirit of the game.


Our league has the house rule that if you let your opponent pocket two consecutive balls of the wrong set without calling the foul, you’ve officially switched from solids to stripes (or vice versatility as the situation applies).


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  (#74)
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07-25-2019, 04:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattPoland View Post
Our league has the house rule that if you let your opponent pocket two consecutive balls of the wrong set without calling the foul, you’ve officially switched from solids to stripes (or vice versatility as the situation applies).


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An elegant little solution. For me its usually a problem after my 8th beer.
  
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agreed
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agreed - 07-25-2019, 04:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
I guess what bothers me more than the opponent having not warned the shooter in advance of their critical mistake, is that the opponent watched it all happen, then immediately called the foul, then felt the need to tell their opponent that they didn't realize they were about to shoot at the wrong ball until it was too late or they would have stopped them from doing it.

I have absolutely no problem with a player who feels it's not their responsibility to warn you that you're about to shoot at the wrong ball in this situation, but don't then try to come across as a nice guy by claiming to the player who has just shot at the wrong ball that they would have stopped you if they'd realized what you were doing, when they know that's an outright lie. Just take your BIH and keep quiet.
Yeah, that is a funny thing. It wouldn't bother me if I saw it but it is a little weak. Just call foul and move on.
  
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