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07-26-2019, 10:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9Ballr View Post
It's the opponent's responsibility to call a ball frozen.
If he doesn't it's treated as not frozen.
That is the rule in an unrefereed match, not in a refereed match.

When there is a ref, however, a ruling can be requested by either player, but in this case, it doesn't appear that anyone present thought the six to be frozen to the rail.
  
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07-26-2019, 10:18 AM

As per rule 1-19(4) of the CSI rules in effect here,

Quote:
4. An object ball is not considered frozen to a cushion unless it is declared frozen immediately prior to the shot and before the shooter is down on the shot.
Since no such ruling was made, the ball is not considered frozen so it's a legal hit. Looking at it carefully it looks like the 6 ball moved after it was hit so it probably want's frozen anyway.
  
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07-26-2019, 10:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinay View Post
As per rule 1-19(4) of the CSI rules in effect here,



Since no such ruling was made, the ball is not considered frozen so it's a legal hit. Looking at it carefully it looks like the 6 ball moved after it was hit so it probably want's frozen anyway.
Those are actually the league rules. This event goes by WPA rules, which does have the same rule on balls on the rail:

Quote:
8.4 Driven to a Rail

A ball is said to be driven to a rail if it is not touching that rail and then touches that rail. A ball touching a rail at the start of a shot (said to be “frozen” to the rail) is not considered driven to that rail unless it leaves the rail and returns. A ball that is pocketed or driven off the table is also considered to have been driven to a rail. A ball is assumed not to be frozen to any rail unless it is declared frozen by the referee, the shooter, or the opponent. See also Regulation 29, Calling Frozen Balls.
  
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07-26-2019, 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
Those are actually the league rules. This event goes by WPA rules, which does have the same rule on balls on the rail:
My mistake, but yes as you said, the same rule exists there. I think a similar rule exists in almost any competitive venue serious enough to have a written rule book. Even the APA has the same rule.
  
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07-26-2019, 02:10 PM

Shouldn't of been frozen, but was due to a lean. At 19:26 (on break) you can see the lean on the 6 as it bumps the rail twice and comes to lean frozen. Doesn't matter now and still a nice shot.
  
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07-26-2019, 02:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gordml View Post
The 3 hit the 6 - but the 6 was frozen against the rail.
Is that a legal hit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbEI...outu.be&t=1384
Yes, absolutely a legal hit, regardless of whether or not the 6-ball was frozen on the rail, as the ref never deemed in advance of the shot if the 6-ball was frozen or not.

Last edited by ChrisinNC; 07-26-2019 at 02:39 PM.
  
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07-26-2019, 02:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
Yes, absolutely a legal hit, regardless of whether or not the 6-ball was frozen on the rail, as the ref never deemed in advance of the shot if the 6-ball was frozen or not.
How do you figure? If the 6 WAS frozen wouldn't it have to hit another rail or another ball hit a rail?
  
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07-26-2019, 02:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
How do you figure? If the 6 WAS frozen wouldn't it have to hit another rail or another ball hit a rail?
Because it was not confirmed in advance of the shot by the referee to be frozen, so in that case it is assumed to not be frozen. It would have been up to the opponent to request of the referee to confirm whether or not it was frozen before the shot, which did not happen. No one in this situation could likely have forseen the need to check to see if the 6-ball was frozen.

Last edited by ChrisinNC; 07-26-2019 at 02:49 PM.
  
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07-26-2019, 02:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
Because it was not deemed in advance by the referee to be frozen, so in that case it is assumed to not be frozen. It would have been up to the opponent to confirm whether it was frozen before the shot, which did not happen. No one in this situation could likely have forseen the need to check to see if the 6-ball was frozen.
You edited your post. Nice try.
  
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07-26-2019, 02:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
You edited your post. Nice try.
I basically just re-stated what I said the first time, just to make it clearer as to the reasons why - because the ref never checked it.
  
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Move along folks
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Move along folks - 07-26-2019, 06:37 PM

Move along folks
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07-31-2019, 08:51 AM

Doesn't matter if it was frozen or not. There was no pre shot call of the six ball anyway. Moot point.
  
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Thumbs up 07-31-2019, 09:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
I basically just re-stated what I said the first time, just to make it clearer as to the reasons why - because the ref never checked it.
Just kiddin'. I gotcha.
  
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