Cues with Ivory
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TrueBlue
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Cues with Ivory - 09-29-2017, 10:07 AM

I have a question regarding cues containing ivory. I have read the information on AZ Billiards but want to be clear. I have a cue that i bought on AZ 5 years ago used that has an ivory hoppe ring and ivory joint. The shaft ferrule is also ivory. I am thinking of listing it for sale or trade but since I am not familiar with the law I wanted to make sure that is permissible. The laws are really confusing so I need clarification before moving forward. Any guidance would be appreciated.


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Mr. Bond
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09-29-2017, 10:54 AM

https://www.fws.gov/international/tr...d-answers.html
  
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Bob Jewett
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09-29-2017, 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bond View Post
I may be reading the Q&A wrong, but it appears that as far as the Feds are concerned, if you have a cue with a little ivory, and that ivory was imported prior to 1990, and the cue was made prior to 2016, it's OK for sale within the US. State law may say something else. Having documentation relative to the dates might be a problem.


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RickLafayette
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09-29-2017, 12:44 PM

Sitting on the sidelines, waiting for an answer, with a similar situation.
Refer to signature below.


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TrueBlue
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09-29-2017, 12:49 PM

Thanks for the replies. It's a Paul Dayton cue....not sure of the year or when the ivory was purchased. I traded for it on AZ 5 years ago so since it's used I do not have any paperwork. Mr Dayton could probably confirm the year.


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09-29-2017, 01:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
I may be reading the Q&A wrong, but it appears that as far as the Feds are concerned, if you have a cue with a little ivory, and that ivory was imported prior to 1990, and the cue was made prior to 2016, it's OK for sale within the US. State law may say something else. Having documentation relative to the dates might be a problem.
Bob, I believe you are correct but typical of federal regulations they leave it vague as to whether documentation might be necessary. If the department should require it you may need to supply documentation of the date of import. And of course you will not find many cue makers able to document the origin of their inlays and ferrules. So seller beware and keep an eye out for big brother.
  
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runscott
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09-29-2017, 02:22 PM

Living in Washington state and being a big fan of antique ivory-laden cues, I did some research and posted in the 'Wanted/For Sale' ivory sticky. My post regards U.S-U.S. transactions only. Ivory cannot be shipped into the U.S.A., regardless of age.

If the information I posted isn't clear, please let me know.

Despite what I posted, I have yet to hear of any problems shipping ivory between states, regardless of the states involved. If anyone has had a problem, please post. If you are afraid that you will be the first, at least you would be in the limelight and could probably sell an article about your experience.
  
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Bob Jewett
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09-29-2017, 02:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by runscott View Post
... Despite what I posted, I have yet to hear of any problems shipping ivory between states, regardless of the states involved. ...
With 100 trillion packages shipped every year in the US I imagine none of them gets inspected unless there is a tipster or a dog involved. Even the long, skinny packages from Carl's Collectible Cues. Now when they develop an ivory-sniffing dog....


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runscott
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09-29-2017, 02:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
With 100 trillion packages shipped every year in the US I imagine none of them gets inspected unless there is a tipster or a dog involved. Even the long, skinny packages from Carl's Collectible Cues. Now when they develop an ivory-sniffing dog....
With a 100 trillion packages shipped every year, I would expect that a few would be inspected, and given the new state laws regarding ivory, I would expect a few of those to be the 30-inch thin tubes and boxes that look like pool cues. There has to be some hard-ass looking to nail someone shipping ivory and make a name for themselves for nailing one of us evil elephant-hating bast*rds...but so far, Nada.
  
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09-29-2017, 02:42 PM

the following sticky may also prove helpful:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=430635

best,
brian kc


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Icon of Sin
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09-29-2017, 03:31 PM

Provided your location is correct, selling within your own state and to most other states within the US you should be fine. There are a few states though that do not allow ivory sales both interstate and intrastate... unfortunately, I don't remember what states they are.

While you probably wont do any serious jail time, the fine would be large and you could get house arrest for a few months. Really isnt worth the risk.


-H

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Johnny Rosato
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09-29-2017, 03:49 PM

Keep the doggone cue and sell some weed locally if'n you need money! LOL
  
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iF yOU'ALL hAD pAID aTTENTION tO mE yEARS aGO
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nkvilliecues
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iF yOU'ALL hAD pAID aTTENTION tO mE yEARS aGO - 09-29-2017, 04:00 PM

THIS IS A DEAD HORSE OF MINE I THOUGHT I HAD STOPPED BEATING YEARS AGO BUT SO OKAY.....ONE MORE TIME......and as once who once killed three elephants in the anger of the moment.

I have been fooling around with cues since 1970 mostly as therapy. One thing i could never understand NOR tolerate was the us of elephant ivory in a cue as every piece of ivory every used anywhere, anytime, from any place represented on of god's greatest creatures, NOT EVEN SLAUGHTERED FOR ITS MEAT, just its tusks. CRIMINAL.

NOW i HAVE A LOT OF GOOD FRIENDS THAT MAKE CUES AND USE A LOT OF IVORY AND I DO NOT BLAME THEM for doing so as they have children to feed and wives to keep happy so you do what you have to do and i still love you. Judge not that ye be judged. I will bet that i i am the only cue builder/maker EVER who has killed three elephants and butchered them for their ivory and left their meat to rot in the jungle, and i did not even get any of the ivory, but that is another story of way long ago and half a world away.

If you do not know the laws of karma and dharma then you should learn them. Those that have used ivory all these years, WELL, all i can say is that i told you so, predicted the future as it were. I mean when they nailed my friend Ernie and the Chinese $$$$ that should have sent a message to you'all.....as message i knew was a long time coming.

Just one man humble opinion, I welcome alll rabid dogs to come tear me apart on this.LOL.

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runscott
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09-29-2017, 04:24 PM

Look at the link posted just ahead of your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon of Sin View Post
Provided your location is correct, selling within your own state and to most other states within the US you should be fine. There are a few states though that do not allow ivory sales both interstate and intrastate... unfortunately, I don't remember what states they are.

While you probably wont do any serious jail time, the fine would be large and you could get house arrest for a few months. Really isnt worth the risk.
  
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09-29-2017, 10:10 PM

If you take a gander at the cues in my signature, you'll understand my vested interest in ivory.
Additionally, for the past 5 years I've searched in vain for a Hercek flat faced ivory cue joint.
So now even if I come across one, since 7/1/16, the deal must be consumated outside of CA .

Here's a website link everyone should make note of if you want to stay abreast of ivory regs.
If you live in one of the affected states, obey the law; if it's being considered, then oppose it.
Remember there can be severe penalties if you get caught plus confiscation of the pool cue.



http://www.aaps-journal.org/fossil-i...gislation.html


Matt B.


"My Pool Cues"

*Bob Owen Custom- Level 8 (s/d 4-24-16) - Flat Ivory Joint
*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 6 (s/d 5-4-16) - Flat Ivory Joint

*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 8 (s/d 2-23-15) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Ed Prewitt Custom '05 - Level 8 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Bob Owen Custom - Level 8 (s/d 5-4-14) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Tim Scruggs Custom (9-6-95) Level 7 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Runde Schon '85 Custom "R" Series (1 of 1)
*Palmer (Original) - '72 (All Cocobolo Wood)
  
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