Is there a secret subculture - an unknown Mosconi Out there?

From what I've heard, the gambler known as "Country" might be the greatest unknown that ever played. Cooney is a legend for sneaking up on people,but a lot of people know at least part of his story.

I've never even seen a picture of "Country".

I know that isn't exactly a couple of unknown garage players running 1000's at 14.1, but with youtube as easy to throw videos onto, I think we'd see any secret pool genious's or "idiot savants" at the game before too long.

Mike Eufemia might be the prime example of a guy who runs 300's so often it isn't even notable, but who never won a number of championships.

i know of several players with potential to be champions but so far they havent showed the desire to be champions and we all know that is a must in pool.i think over the next 4years we will see more great players flood the game than ever before and i cant wait.

Practice Champions

The difference is similiar as in martial arts between 'forms' and 'fighting'.
You have someone that has great form, but might not be a great fighter.

Practice Champions live in Ivory Towers. They have a controlled environment with everything just so to suit themselves, but the fact is, that is not real life.

Skill needs to be tested in competition to have any real value or meaning.

I won't go into a diatribe, but it goes back to
"Survival of the Fittest".

Not sure about how many "practice champions' there are hiding out there but one thing's for absolutely sure........there are dozens, if not hundreds of youngsters (and some full blown adults) out there with the requisite inherent hand eye coordination and competitive instinct to be just about as good as any pool player who has ever lived. Alas, all bar a few will never ever even pick up a pool cue, far less develop enough interest to take it up seriously. They will gravitate to one of the more financially lucrative or more physically demanding or less "embarassing to admit you play it" 'real' sports.

Such youngsters existed (untapped) in large numbers in the days of the previous pool greats, they exist now and they will always exist. To think otherwise would be absurd.

I think DCP is probably one o them undercover Mosconi-like perfect pool players.

I have often believed that the best pool talent in the world have probably never even played pool...or at least in America. Your most talented athletes play sports such as baseball, football, basketball, soccer, etc at a young age and never venture into a pool hall. These games actually have a lot in common such as hand/eye coordination and spatial iq. It is my opinion that your top mlb pitchers, nfl quarterbacks, and nba guards would have made champion pool players if they had taken up the game early and practiced it like their own sport. I was a pretty damn good baseball player...played some semi pro and college ball...but I didnt start playing the game for real until I was about 17 or 18. If I had begun playing pool instead of baseball and taken it just as seriously, I think I would be a hell of a player right now.

As far as a pool prodigy goes...that is tough to say. I seriously doubt it...at least in America. Someone, somewhere is going to find out about this prodigy and expose him/her. It is possible, but highly unlikely, about having an autistic prodigy. It is much more common in games like cards, chess, ect... It is pretty tough for an autistic person to excell at a dexterious venture.

Also, the lack of competition DOES make a big difference. Playing against an opponent is completely different that running balls in a basement. They say that Wade Boggs could hit a homerun on almost every pitch during batting practice....does this make him the best homerun hitter of all time. Of course not. Therefore, in my opinion, you cannot judge greatness by practice of any kind. It is my belief that a skill must be tested under the pressure of match play before it can truly be called greatness.

I am a heck of free throw shooter. I can go out back and shoot a clip of 90 percent day in and day out just for sh*ts and giggles. But I truly doubt that I could do it in a game or for the cash.

This thread reminds me of Moe Norman, possibly the best golfer ever (has 2 59s to his credit, and many course records around Canada). Moe practiced like crazy from when he was a youngster, and could hit a golf ball like nobody else. He was very shy however, and possibly autistic, and it caused him problems playing tournaments. He was basicly ridiculed out of the PGA by mean-spirited comments (and of course his shyness didn't help) on the strange way he would play sometimes (a caddy once suggested that a hole would play driver - 9 iron, so Moe tees off with a 9 iron then hits driver onto the green , an example of stuff that Moe would do just for just own amusement). He was very well known, but a prime example of a great who did travel in the same cicles as the other greats.

Dave, not a prodigy

At the US Open three or four years ago Bennie Wienie told about a middle aged guy that lived in backwoods Tennesee that beat anyone that came calling for twenty years in a country store with a 9 footer but that was the only place as he wouldn't leave home . Bill said that this was during his prime so who was he?

Leonard

chilli66 said:

Am I the only one here thinking about Travis Trotter??

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Nope!

I'm kinda curious about the link to the youtube video lol

Globetrotter put a 121 on youtube in a home setting but he never kicked a cat and he's not totally unknown... he posts on here actually.

I wouldn't mind seeing another 100+ youtube run.
Did y'all know max eberle has put up a few vids of himself playing?

poolcuemaster said:

At the US Open three or four years ago Bennie Wienie told about a middle aged guy that lived in backwoods Tennesee that beat anyone that came calling for twenty years in a country store with a 9 footer but that was the only place as he wouldn't leave home . Bill said that this was during his prime so who was he?

Leonard

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Could that have been Bud Hypes?

This thread makes me think that if the "unknown Mosconi" from the original post is actually out there somewhere, he might do OK in tournaments or money games if he is autistic. A pool-playing "Rainman" so autistically indifferent to what others think or do that he (or she) would feel absolutely no pressure at all. Let's get Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman to co-star in a movie about a pool-playing savant who never misses a makeable shot. Anyone care to suggest a movie title here?

BillPorter said:

Could that have been Bud Hypes?

This thread makes me think that if the "unknown Mosconi" from the original post is actually out there somewhere, he might do OK in tournaments or money games if he is autistic. A pool-playing "Rainman" so autistically indifferent to what others think or do that he (or she) would feel absolutely no pressure at all. Let's get Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman to co-star in a movie about a pool-playing savant who never misses a makeable shot. Anyone care to suggest a movie title here?

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BINGO! Has to be Bud Hypes. All the best players of his era ducked him.

Not sure if someone could remain completely anonomous. I think of the golfer 'Moe Norman'. He was unable to be socially accepted however his brilliance was recognized by many until the day he died. Some consider him the best ball striker (and possibly the best golfer) ever.

There's this 16 yr old kid from Ohio............



Russ...

poolhustler said:

There's this 16 yr old kid from Ohio............



Russ...

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Tell us more! Tell us more! Pleeeeaaaase!

poolhustler said:

There's this 16 yr old kid from Ohio............



Russ...

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Does he play out of Airway Billiards in Dayton?

AZE said:

It makes ya think... because, I mean, I know a lot of people who don't seem to play pool... they might be part of Project Mayhem.

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The first rule of project mayhem is you do not ask questions sir.

bud green said:

From what I've heard, the gambler known as "Country" might be the greatest unknown that ever played. Cooney is a legend for sneaking up on people,but a lot of people know at least part of his story.

I've never even seen a picture of "Country".

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Didnt Port Chester Mickey learn from Country?

JCIN said:

The guy who plays like god in his basement by himself is quite a bit different than the guy playing in a strange room against another Champion whose only desire is to crush him and take every available dime or the guy playing under the lights and camera's of the finals of the Derby or Open.

Just because someone is good at the technique of the game does not mean they are good at WINNING the game. That is a whole other art in itself.

I got a buddy who I have seen put 5 and 6 packs together enough to know it ain't a fluke. But guess what I still ain't betting on him against a guy who plays a ball or two below him but is in heavy action all time.

My buddy Frank once told me the secret to pool:

First you have to learn to make balls.

Second, you have to learn to PLAY.

Finally, you have to learn to WIN.

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How does one learn to win?

Does winners have certain habits or frame of mind that we can emulate?

Absolutely!

MasterClass said:

How does one learn to win?

Does winners have certain habits or frame of mind that we can emulate?

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There are many books out there about how to win. After reading a bunch of them I can say that winners have many things in common regardless of the form of competition. Read some books on the mental game.

One of the greatest hurdles to climb over for many people is low expectations. If I had a dollar for every time someone has told me that they, or we, could never beat the top competitor of the moment, I could retire and host my own tour. Of course those people that said they could never beat somebody, never did.

Here is something for free: Some conceal it better than others but I have never met a winner that didn't have a certain amount of ego.

Hu