Mother Drills/ Stroke Drills

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dude...If you really wanted to get better, you'd go see Randyg, not CJ. Randyg is a top pro teacher...CJ is, well, CJ...a pro player who gives lessons. A gigantic difference, imo. If you asked, I'd bet many of the "top notch" players you mentioned in N TX have worked with Randyg over the years. Again...a video cannot help you develop a better stroke. A professional instructor can...period.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Dude, I know you gots wares to sell, I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on lessons, I have had exactly 1 formal training session (3 hrs with CJ Wiley) which was neat because I got to hang out with an awesome pro for a while. I play with a lot of top notch pool players, I don't win a lot, but I also don't suck, I win my fair share. A guy asks how to learn a good stroke, I gave him a resource, which wasn't "go spend 180 bucks", you take offense to that, its on you. I gave the guy a solid way to develop a strong repeatable stroke...for free. If anyone watches this video, does the stroke drill and still can't hit a ball, they are probably going to give the game up or call one of you.
 

EddieBme

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Allison Fisher .
You should close your eyes when watching Hopkins' stroke.

Allison Fisher revolutionized the pool game in the US.
Buddy Hall, somehow did not get emulated by a ton of players.
Now, you can see the pros stroke like Fisher.

lol. I had such a short back swing, so i thought Hopkins' stroke, (or lack of), would work for me too.
I've tried to mimic Allisons' too, but the long pause, (just like Buddy) i can't shoot straight consistently.
I'm sure I could improve with a few more lessons from a Professional Instructor.
 

boyersj

Indiana VNEA State Champ
Silver Member
I have been away from AZ for a while, working on projects around my house when not at work. That being said, this post hits home. I like the Tor Lowry Videos because he going into pattern play and various "in front of the ball" things that players need to learn somehow.

His focus on fundamentals is more than most videos do; however its quite vague. Since the title of this thread specifically mentions mother drills; I am going to assume anyone asking is familiar with these 7 drills. Of the 7; two are very much more advanced than the first 5. I created a format that included two 20 minute intervals of these drills with a two week schedule.

The biggest caveat is to do the drills daily, twice. Following them verbatim after an instructor has given you your template; covered your entire pre shot routine; and take notes on performance of each drill completed with complete honesty.

I haven't applied myself for the last 4 years because of increased responsibilities at work; but I can guarantee you that I would not have won a state championship during that semi-hiatus without having spent the time doing a deep dive into my pre shot routine.

To put it rather simply, not only did I create a "Mantra", but I also used a metronome to find a rhythm to my preshot routine that helps it be incredibly natural. You wont get that level of specificity by watching someone do a stroke drill on the video. Can you get something out of it? Sure. There is just a lot more under the hood with some trained insight and a video camera.
 

Mkindsv

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dude...If you really wanted to get better, you'd go see Randyg, not CJ. Randyg is a top pro teacher...CJ is, well, CJ...a pro player who gives lessons. A gigantic difference, imo. If you asked, I'd bet many of the "top notch" players you mentioned in N TX have worked with Randyg over the years. Again...a video cannot help you develop a better stroke. A professional instructor can...period.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Scott, my stroke is just fine...fantastic in fact. My game, though not pro level has been improving every single week since I took this sport back up 4 years ago after a 17 year hiatus. Minimizing CJ Wiley is a mistake, he is a fantastic instructor and a world champion, which is quite different than being minimized as a pro that gives lessons. I often read the statement "Those who cant do, teach" I guess I can add "Those who teach try to minimize those that CAN do". I am sure you have helped a lot of people play better pool, have a better stroke, perhaps even become great players. Correct me if I am wrong, But I am also positive you have never won a US Open or sold a line of your own instuctional videos that have sold tens of thousands of copies. That being said, maybe you should focus a little more on what you can offer someone that signs up for your classes and stop denigrating the teaching skills of players that could give you the wild 4 and still stomp a mudhole in your ass on a pool table.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
you need the chicken and the egg!

Scott, my stroke is just fine...fantastic in fact. My game, though not pro level has been improving every single week since I took this sport back up 4 years ago after a 17 year hiatus. Minimizing CJ Wiley is a mistake, he is a fantastic instructor and a world champion, which is quite different than being minimized as a pro that gives lessons. I often read the statement "Those who cant do, teach" I guess I can add "Those who teach try to minimize those that CAN do". I am sure you have helped a lot of people play better pool, have a better stroke, perhaps even become great players. Correct me if I am wrong, But I am also positive you have never won a US Open or sold a line of your own instuctional videos that have sold tens of thousands of copies. That being said, maybe you should focus a little more on what you can offer someone that signs up for your classes and stop denigrating the teaching skills of players that could give you the wild 4 and still stomp a mudhole in your ass on a pool table.



I have talked to instructors, I have talked to world champions, world record holders, and hall of fame members in several activities. There are things that instructors can teach that champions are likely to gloss over and slide past since these things are just givens at the level they are at. They have quit thinking about them long ago and often don't realize the people they are talking to may be still dealing with mundane issues.

The other side of the coin is that no instructor that has peaked at very good and never found greatness can impart some things a champion can. If a student wants to move up to the highest levels, the easiest way to achieve that goal may be spending time around people already there or that have been there. No matter how much certification an instructor has, they can't tell you what it is like running out the last rack for a major title unless they have been there.

Most instructors out there have their place and even some that may not seem to offer much may have one bit of insight that is worth thousands to you. I used to always bend an ear when the old men talked. Their way might not be the best way now but it was good enough to clinch many a victory for them. Smarter to build on what they say than to disregard it.

Hu
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not to ruin anybody's hustle who is promoting drills but for me there are so many shots that come up in pool that can't be replicated in drills - I think some 14.1 or equal offense combined with 9 or 10 ball ghost is far better than drills.

The exception to that is kicking. Kicking drills I have benefited from although in today's game most players just pull out a jump cue and skip having to learn how to kick.

^^^^^^^^^^^ is SOOOOOOOO true.

As for the jump cue.....well, if I shoot you a safe and you are able to jump out of jail then that means:

Either I need to work on my safes

OR

you can can jump over a ball while being froze to it.


I agree, I hate jump cues. Like most, I'm very proficient with one but, but, but....like FEW ....I'm also very proficient in kicking. So, I had much, much rather see jump cues goe away.

In the end though, most people only think they are proficient with jump cues. It's the same with kicking, most that think they are proficient at kicking are the very ones that try to "only hit" the ball.....not hit it on the right side in order to kick-safe.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I hate jump cues, but I kinda like to see one come out!

^^^^^^^^^^^ is SOOOOOOOO true.

As for the jump cue.....well, if I shoot you a safe and you are able to jump out of jail then that means:

Either I need to work on my safes

OR

you can can jump over a ball while being froze to it.


I agree, I hate jump cues. Like most, I'm very proficient with one but, but, but....like FEW ....I'm also very proficient in kicking. So, I had much, much rather see jump cues goe away.

In the end though, most people only think they are proficient with jump cues. It's the same with kicking, most that think they are proficient at kicking are the very ones that try to "only hit" the ball.....not hit it on the right side in order to kick-safe.


Watching video of top players I see they have the jump cue down pretty good. However, it seems that the people at my local halls have used jump cues as an excuse to not learn how to kick and they are not really good at either one.

My objections to jump cues are simple. First, they are noisy, a distraction to other players. Second, at the local level they often result in balls flying off the table, a distraction to other players. Basically, using one is often rude although that wasn't the intention. It is a lot like a guy I was playing one day. Almost every break of his resulted in the cue ball bouncing across the room but he refused to change his break. I know people got tired of that!

On another level, it seems pool was meant to be a two dimensional game. Jumping seems outside the intent of play. Opinion here but jumping seems outside the spirit of the game.

I don't like jump cues but I do think they usually hurt the other player more than they help so they represent an advantage, to me.

Hu
 

nine_ball6970

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have talked to instructors, I have talked to world champions, world record holders, and hall of fame members in several activities. There are things that instructors can teach that champions are likely to gloss over and slide past since these things are just givens at the level they are at. They have quit thinking about them long ago and often don't realize the people they are talking to may be still dealing with mundane issues.

The other side of the coin is that no instructor that has peaked at very good and never found greatness can impart some things a champion can. If a student wants to move up to the highest levels, the easiest way to achieve that goal may be spending time around people already there or that have been there. No matter how much certification an instructor has, they can't tell you what it is like running out the last rack for a major title unless they have been there.

Most instructors out there have their place and even some that may not seem to offer much may have one bit of insight that is worth thousands to you. I used to always bend an ear when the old men talked. Their way might not be the best way now but it was good enough to clinch many a victory for them. Smarter to build on what they say than to disregard it.

Hu

FWIW I had a friend recently tell me how much he learned from lessons with CJ. CJ was all about fixing his bad habits in areas which he didn't even know were a problem. I have heard the same about Charlie Bryant.

There are different kinds of pro players. Some have great instincts and natural talent while others had to start from the ground up. Some pros are great teachers and some are not. Same as anything else.
 
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