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alstl
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08-21-2019, 12:30 PM

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Originally Posted by APA Operator View Post
Yeah, they do. But when considering DQ, the cert process is considered. If five went up and zero certed up, that's gonna hurt you. The part that breaks your case is when captains and players come in here and say in one breath "we're all about improving" and say in the next breath "we had two months to practice between the WQ and the Championship, and we didn't think anyone improved" and top it off with things like "teaching stance and stroke" and "several people played the best I've ever seen them play" (APA hears that last one from EVERY team it DQs). The story just doesn't jive. Are you honest people who were just negligent with the form? Maybe, but five up is a LOT. There are two things I'd like to clear up. 1) Honest teams CAN be DQed. Perhaps, if APA believes it as has been stated here, the DQed team/players will get relief from the suspensions. 2) The money from the DQed team goes to the teams it knocked out of the tournament, and those teams can get invited back next year. It actually COSTS APA money to DQ a team. Those of you who say "follow the money" should chew on that for a while.
Sean said they raised the handicap on a player who was 2-2 and another player who was 1-2. Russ had it right. They got screwed.


Case closed.
  
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08-21-2019, 12:31 PM

Since it has been brought up many times about a team having 5 players raised and it being automatic that they were disqualified, I'll add that a team we played said they had 6 players raised. They were not disqualified. Btw.


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Shawn Armstrong
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08-21-2019, 12:32 PM

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Originally Posted by alstl View Post
Sean said they raised the handicap on a player who was 2-2 and another player who was 1-2. Russ had it right. They got screwed.


Case closed.
Were you there? I was
  
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Shawn Armstrong
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08-21-2019, 12:33 PM

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Originally Posted by dogginda9 View Post
Since it has been brought up many times about a team having 5 players raised and it being automatic that they were disqualified, I'll add that a team we played said they had 6 players raised. They were not disqualified. Btw.
Calling BS.
  
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erhino41
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08-21-2019, 12:34 PM

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Originally Posted by sixpack View Post
This is where the APA loses me. They have a “Mathematical, objective handicapping system”...so whining and complaining shouldn’t influence it. Yet almost all of the apa supporters in this thread talk like the APA makes a decision to avoid whining or to appease whiners. Or watch a team/player and ‘make’ a judgement. A judgement isn’t math.

Is the system objective or isn’t it?
I've heard it first hand influence handicapping at the state or WQ level. Up until that point I didn't mind it and I just assumed it was fair.

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08-21-2019, 12:39 PM

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Originally Posted by Shawn Armstrong View Post
If one player went up, your “honest player” has merit. Two? I’ll buy it. Everyone except 2 players went up a ranking. You, in effect, played the tournament with a 28 rule instead of 23. Yep....seems fair and unintentional. 🙄
In one response you say you don't think it was intentional, then in this one you imply it was. The players were being watched and went up over the course of 9 rounds - I didn't "play the tournament with a 28 rule instead of 23"

I'd really like to get out of this thread honestly, so please don't take any further silence on my part for agreement.
  
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08-21-2019, 12:40 PM

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Originally Posted by alstl View Post
Sean said they raised the handicap on a player who was 2-2 and another player who was 1-2. Russ had it right. They got screwed.


Case closed.
Could be, but again we don't know skill levels of any player involved in the matches. What I mean is, if my SL 2 goes 2-2 and those 2 wins were against 5's and 6's with relatively low innings, I wouldn't be shocked if they got bumped.

Regardless, seems all the fat has been chewed off this bone, and Sean has come on here and explained his position succinctly and with grace.
  
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08-21-2019, 12:41 PM

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Originally Posted by Shawn Armstrong View Post
Must be a slow day in the “you kids get off my lawn” chat group.
I'm only 41 far from a curmudgeon.

I have nothing against the apa. They bring a lot of people into this sport/game/social activity,depending on your perception. I have nothing against people who are serious about the apa, I'm just not one of them.

The apa is a business and as such have rules I place to protect their products, being the equalizer handicap system and the team championships, as they should.

You and I are in agreement that there were rules in place and they were broken. We are also in agreement that the captain should have understand all of his duties going into this event.

I'm not sure why you want to pick a fight. I am allowed to play apa and still have the opinion that it isn't great.

It must be a slow day on the "apa can do no wrong" message board.

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Shawn Armstrong
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08-21-2019, 12:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyCornbread View Post
In one response you say you don't think it was intentional, then in this one you imply it was. The players were being watched and went up over the course of 9 rounds - I didn't "play the tournament with a 28 rule instead of 23"

I'd really like to get out of this thread honestly, so please don't take any further silence on my part for agreement.
My sig other is a red bib at the events. She was playing the tourney, and not working this tournament. We’d heard about your team after the second round. You were watched by several officials over the course of the tourney. They all gave the same feedback. So I know more than most with regards to what went down.
  
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dogginda9
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08-21-2019, 12:43 PM

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Originally Posted by Shawn Armstrong View Post
Calling BS.
Not saying you're wrong, just repeating what they said. And no I don't believe they dumped to us to avoid any possible DQ situation. If so they would not have gone to the 5th match and almost won it. They seemed like a very nice group and could not have been classier in the way they played and acted.


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Shawn Armstrong
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08-21-2019, 12:45 PM

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Originally Posted by erhino41 View Post
I'm only 41 far from a curmudgeon.

I have nothing against the apa. They bring a lot of people into this sport/game/social activity,depending on your perception. I have nothing against people who are serious about the apa, I'm just not one of them.

The apa is a business and as such have rules I place to protect their products, being the equalizer handicap system and the team championships, as they should.

You and I are in agreement that there were rules in place and they were broken. We are also in agreement that the captain should have understand all of his duties going into this event.

I'm not sure why you want to pick a fight. I am allowed to play apa and still have the opinion that it isn't great.

It must be a slow day on the "apa can do no wrong" message board.

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I’m not the one picking fights. There is a mob slagging what happened. I know a lot of the refs at the event. I date one of them. So I know a lot more of the background story than most people posting.
  
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Shawn Armstrong
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08-21-2019, 12:48 PM

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Originally Posted by dogginda9 View Post
Not saying you're wrong, just repeating what they said. And no I don't believe they dumped to us to avoid any possible DQ situation. If so they would not have gone to the 5th match and almost won it. They seemed like a very nice group and could not have been classier in the way they played and acted.
The system would flag them. They’d be warned. There would be at least one official warning. Then they’d get the boot. The only way 6 players can go up on a roster and still be active is if they had the tournament officials raise their rankings before the first rack was broken.
  
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dogginda9
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08-21-2019, 12:54 PM

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Originally Posted by Shawn Armstrong View Post
The system would flag them. They’d be warned. There would be at least one official warning. Then they’d get the boot. The only way 6 players can go up on a roster and still be active is if they had the tournament officials raise their rankings before the first rack was broken.
I wish I had had more time to talk with them and get more details and clarification. But alas I did not. I hope to retire to their area relatively soon and I will ask then.


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08-21-2019, 12:59 PM

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Originally Posted by Shawn Armstrong View Post
Trent, the system actually is fair if everyone plays to their full potential, and abides by the rules. And when you say this happens every year, when only 1 team in 2000 gets the boot, that’s a pretty good success rate. Pool players on here crack me up. They get it right 99.9% of the time, yet toxic threads pop up because the 0.1% don’t know how to play nicely with the other kids in the sandbox.
That is a lot to expect when 'don't show your true speed' is embedded in the DNA of the sport.
  
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08-21-2019, 01:04 PM

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Originally Posted by KissedOut View Post
That is a lot to expect when 'don't show your true speed' is embedded in the DNA of the sport.
And yet they blame the league for this issue....

In a handicapped league, there will always be someone trying to manipulate the system. Then number of times they get it right, in my opinion, is much higher than the number of times they get it wrong. Yet people want to jump on a flourishing and self sustaining league that actually promotes the game, because ONE customer got a little bent out of shape. SMH.

One team suspended. What about all of the other teams that managed to make it through the event unscathed?
  
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