What's wrong with APA rules?

KRJ

KRJ

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justadub said:
All of that certainly could work, RJ.

:p
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I agree Dub, thus why I said only one or two leagues in an area. But there is not that many arguments, the board runs stuff, but major changes are voted on by the team managers, majority rules.

And having the leauge run for you by "others" is nice, but there is a steep price imho. But of course, somebody has to keep score every game, someone has to drop off the sheets, someone has to collect the money each week, someone has to collect the yearly dues, someone has to build their team, have to recruit playaers, have to find bars to play in, etc. etc... I got news for ya Dub, you guys are already running the league :)

Heck, if you want, pay someone to run it for you, and I"m sure some guy that wants to earn a new custom cue once a year for running it would be thrilled to death... not to mention the two teams going to Vegas.

Again, just an option for folks that might want to go it alone in-house style. If not, stay were your at, drink a cold one, and enjoy pool :)
 
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lorider

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ChicagoRJ said:
I agree Dub, thus why I said only one or two leagues in an area. But there is not that many arguments, the board runs stuff, but major changes are voted on by the team managers, majority rules.

And having the leauge run for you by "others" is nice, but there is a steep price imho. But of course, somebody has to keep score every game, someone has to drop off the sheets, someone has to collect the money each week, someone has to collect the yearly dues, someone has to build their team, have to recruit playaers, have to find bars to play in, etc. etc... I got news for ya Dub, you guys are already running the league :)

Heck, if you want, pay someone to run it for you, and I"m sure some guy that wants to earn a new custom cue once a year for running it would be thrilled to death... not to mention the two teams going to Vegas.

Again, just an option for folks that might want to go it alone in-house style. If not, stay were your at, drink a cold one, and enjoy pool :)
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chicago.....a lot of your posts make pretty good sense mot of the time. i really dont like offending or being confrontational with people on here.

i just dont know how to ask this question delicately so dont take offense , ok ? are you off your meds ?

no one and i mean no one does anything for free. as for doing the work for an entire year for a cue ? lets see... making up scoresheets, making up schedules, setting handicaps, listening to people b*tch about handicaps, totaling up scoresheets every week, delivering scoresheets , time and gas, money for paper..... nah it aint worth a cue.

around here the lo handles everything, or in the case of a traveling money league members of the board do.

the president of the traveling money league delivers scoresheets for 22 teams on monday night, that is 11 different locations, 26 teams on tue night, that is 13 different locations.his gas and time aint free. plus all his time for totaling all the scoresheets and adjusting handicaps for these 48 teams.

our apa lo has 25 different divisions playing 7 nights a week. he drops off scoresheets for every location, goes back and picks up same scoresheets after matches. goes home and pores over every scoresheet, remember now 25 divisions with some divisions having 12- 14 teams, makes sure every scoresheet is correct and enters them in the national database, prints out next weeks scoresheets with updated handicaps, matches played by every member etc,etc. delivers them to their proper location before the matches start.

he does this by himself. now tell me he does not earn his money. oh yea takes call from people all week long wanting to know everything under the sun. i am guilty of calling occasionaly.:eek:

to me it is a thankless job.
 
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lorider

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oh yea my lo does get some help.

each division has a division rep. they handle any rule disputes, observe shots,throw out trouble makers or drunks...which we very seldom have thankfully.

all division reps play for free the entire session, they only pay their yearly membership fee.

speaking of fees. all weekly fees are deposited in an envelope and placed in an envelope along with your scoresheet. they are placed at the bar for the lo to pick up the next day.

if a player has not paid his weekly fee and plays the following week his match is forfieted. just one more thing the lo has to keep up with. his method prevents the fiasco that happened in the apa champions thread.
 
KRJ

KRJ

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lorider said:
chicago.....a lot of your posts make pretty good sense mot of the time. i really dont like offending or being confrontational with people on here.

i just dont know how to ask this question delicately so dont take offense , ok ? are you off your meds ?

no one and i mean no one does anything for free. as for doing the work for an entire year for a cue ? lets see... making up scoresheets, making up schedules, setting handicaps, listening to people b*tch about handicaps, totaling up scoresheets every week, delivering scoresheets , time and gas, money for paper..... nah it aint worth a cue.

.
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OK, first, I'm not out of my mind (my mother had me tested :)

Second, you gotta realize, this is NOT running a multiple league oranziation, you have just the one league, playing on ONE NIGHT only. If someone else wants to do the same thing, they hire/elect their own board and start their own league. And yes, I use to run one of the largest in-house leagues in the Chicago area with a couple of other guys for free.

We each did a certain aspect of it, and we paid someone to do the score sheets and schedules. That was the ONLY person that got paid. But we liked it because we were gonna do the league the right way, and control it from falling apart. We gave the house a cut for the tables, and the rest of the money went into trophy and prize fund. (but since most APA leagues don't play in pool halls, no cut necessary)

Nobody b1tches about handicaps in the league ( I don't run it anymore but I still play there 8 years later) NOBODY. It is impossible to sandbag... All the best known players some how all have the same high handicaps, and the guys that are just a ball below those guys, and right there nipping on their heels.... it works. You could NOT afford to sandbag, because ONE round loss could cost you the championship...We don't play "sets", we play each player on the other team once during the five rounds. After each round, you add up the team scores, add in the team handicapp and decide who won round 1, then start round 2.

In fact, there is very little complaints, and folks here on AZ can attest, there is 16 teams that play there every Thursday night. Runs quite smoothly actually.

And the trick, is the guys running it MUST play in the league, so bringing the scoresheets every night is quite simple, since they are showing up anyways. The trick would be to find a bar/pool hall with at least 4 tables so you can all play at the same place.

If not possible, then you pay someone for picking up the other sheets. Heck, in some APA leagues they pay a couple of bucks, and in some others, they do it for free.

Again, my suggestion was in a nutshell, but not ONLY has it been done, but done successfully, and I think it is still the largest league at one location in Chicago... I know it is for sure the toughest :)
 
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lorider

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ChicagoRJ said:
OK, first, I'm not out of my mind (my mother had me tested :)

Second, you gotta realize, this is NOT running a multiple league oranziation, you have just the one league, playing on ONE NIGHT only. If someone else wants to do the same thing, they hire/elect their own board and start their own league. And yes, I use to run one of the largest in-house leagues in the Chicago area with a couple of other guys for free.

We each did a certain aspect of it, and we paid someone to do the score sheets and schedules. That was the ONLY person that got paid. But we liked it because we were gonna do the league the right way, and control it from falling apart. We gave the house a cut for the tables, and the rest of the money went into trophy and prize fund. (but since most APA leagues don't play in pool halls, no cut necessary)

Nobody b1tches about handicaps in the league ( I don't run it anymore but I still play there 8 years later) NOBODY. It is impossible to sandbag... All the best known players some how all have the same high handicaps, and the guys that are just a ball below those guys, and right there nipping on their heels.... it works. You could NOT afford to sandbag, because ONE round loss could cost you the championship...We don't play "sets", we play each player on the other team once during the five rounds. After each round, you add up the team scores, add in the team handicapp and decide who won round 1, then start round 2.

In fact, there is very little complaints, and folks here on AZ can attest, there is 16 teams that play there every Thursday night. Runs quite smoothly actually.

And the trick, is the guys running it MUST play in the league, so bringing the scoresheets every night is quite simple, since they are showing up anyways. The trick would be to find a bar/pool hall with at least 4 tables so you can all play at the same place.

If not possible, then you pay someone for picking up the other sheets. Heck, in some APA leagues they pay a couple of bucks, and in some others, they do it for free.

Again, my suggestion was in a nutshell, but not ONLY has it been done, but done successfully, and I think it is still the largest league at one location in Chicago... I know it is for sure the toughest :)
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well that scenario could work. we have some in house money leagues at one particular pool room that has been run by the same guy forever. 8-9 years that i know of. for the most part they run pretty smoothly but as we all know you can't please all the people all the time.

i play on one league where if you dont break and run you dont get back to the table against quite a few guys.

thanks for the good natured response to my question about the meds. :thumbup:
 
A

APA Operator

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allanpsand said:
I can understand the need to have a skill cap (23) for a team, but why they don't simply offer an opportunity to go over that number. For example, a 10 point penalty for each point over 23. You could put together a team with a 25 skill level, and the whole team would sacrifice 20 points taken from their score and added to the opponent team. At least this allows individual players a chance to improve their skills over the season and still stay with their team, even if they are advanced.
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Unless the penalty for exceeding the cap is harsh enough to prevent a team from contending, exceeding the cap will become a STRATEGY for contending. At that point, more and more teams will do it, until eventually there's really no penalty for exceeding the cap. That effectively raises the cap and enables top-heavy teams to dominate.

Very few teams actually get to the point during a session where they can't POSSIBLY meet the 23 rule with their five lowest-rated players. The fact that certain combinations exceed 23 doesn't mean the team can't finish the season. It also doesn't always mean somebody can't play at all. It simply means the lower-rated players on the team get to play more often.
 
KRJ

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APA Operator said:
exceeding the cap will become a STRATEGY for contending. At that point, more and more teams will do it, until eventually there's really no penalty for exceeding the cap. That effectively raises the cap and enables top-heavy teams to dominate.
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I think that is a contradiction. You then say all teams will begin exceeding the cap, and thus top heavy teams will dominate. Well, if they all exceed it they are all top heavy.

But since it is handicapped, even if some teams did NOT decide to go over the threshold, the heavy team gotta give up a lot more weight, so not really sure where the problem lies then.
 
KRJ

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lorider said:
well that scenario could work. we have some in house money leagues at one particular pool room that has been run by the same guy forever. 8-9 years that i know of. for the most part they run pretty smoothly but as we all know you can't please all the people all the time.

i play on one league where if you dont break and run you dont get back to the table against quite a few guys.

thanks for the good natured response to my question about the meds. :thumbup:
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Well, this league in Addison is tough, and there are many players where you don't get up again if you miss. And the APA 7's that join (I know of at least 5 in the last few sessions) fall into the the top 25% percentile, and are no where near the top when they get here... not sure if the ACS league guys are this good, or the APA needs a tweak who becomes a "7" just a little bit.

We use to have a ONE master per team can play at any given time... But then it changed to have as many masters as you want. You know who changed it.... the team captains voted on it, because afterall it is "our" league, and we run it to how we want it.

And here is the shocker, the bottom teams (we do have a few very low teams) were the ones that were OK with this. I would NEVER had believed it... but they like playing against good players and good teams, so they could care less if one team has 5 masters on it. We even offered to break into the divisions, an A and B division, but again, the lower ranked teams did NOT want this as well.... they come to play... I give them credit for that...
 
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justadub

justadub

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lorider said:
oh yea my lo does get some help.

each division has a division rep. they handle any rule disputes, observe shots,throw out trouble makers or drunks...which we very seldom have thankfully.

all division reps play for free the entire session, they only pay their yearly membership fee.

speaking of fees. all weekly fees are deposited in an envelope and placed in an envelope along with your scoresheet. they are placed at the bar for the lo to pick up the next day.

if a player has not paid his weekly fee and plays the following week his match is forfieted. just one more thing the lo has to keep up with. his method prevents the fiasco that happened in the apa champions thread.
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I gotta get a better agent....:p

I'm now a division rep, and I only the annual dues paid, still gotta pay my weekly...and what compounds that is the club I belong to pays the annual dues for the teams it hosts, so i havent gained anything in the deal! :grin:

I wasn't doing it for the dues, actually. Just trying to help. We have a couple of reps for each division, to share the responsibility and to have folks in multiple locations. (Travelling league)

Just thought it was funny....
 
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lorider

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justadub said:
I gotta get a better agent....:p

I'm now a division rep, and I only the annual dues paid, still gotta pay my weekly...and what compounds that is the club I belong to pays the annual dues for the teams it hosts, so i havent gained anything in the deal! :grin:

I wasn't doing it for the dues, actually. Just trying to help. We have a couple of reps for each division, to share the responsibility and to have folks in multiple locations. (Travelling league)

Just thought it was funny....
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it has been said before and i will say it again db, players opinions of leagues depends on how well it is run, and the type of people you associate with in leagues.

after seeing all the threads about lackadasial lo's people not paying their dues, cheaters and sandbaggers, etc etc i am glad i play in my region and not theirs.

i have a great lo. he plays on teams in 2 divisions that i know of. i play on one of those teams. he shows up to at least one division every night and sometimes visits more than one.

delivers and picks up all scoresheets at each location himself. always returns every ones phone calls promptly . he is just very heavily involved in the day to day operation of his franchise. it usually takes him 3-4 days to have your match results on the national website but considering he is just one person taking care of this entire area by himself it is understandable.

oh yea, regarding recruiting new players or new venues to play at, he does that by himself also. he goes around to different venues putting up flyers and leaving applications to join the league. just recently he added a sports bar that we now play at that has brand new valleys, besides having leagues at every pool hall in town. so this is just not a bar venue franchise here.

he also has a plan where if a division has an uneven number of teams a new team can join to fill the bye and play free for that session. that means no one on that team pays weekly dues for the entire session.

i play on one team for free, my gf is a rep so she plays on a team for free, thinking about becoming a rep for another division so i can play free that night also.

nothing beats playing for free. yea dub you need a new agent, or a less greedy lo.
 
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A

APA Operator

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ChicagoRJ said:
I think that is a contradiction. You then say all teams will begin exceeding the cap, and thus top heavy teams will dominate. Well, if they all exceed it they are all top heavy.
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Not top heavy like that. With a cap of 25, three 7's and two 2's beats five 5's. The team with three 7's is "top heavy" and will dominate with the right 7's.


ChicagoRJ said:
But since it is handicapped, even if some teams did NOT decide to go over the threshold, the heavy team gotta give up a lot more weight, so not really sure where the problem lies then.
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If they are giving up more than they can gain by exceeding the cap, then I'm all for it. At that point there's no incentive to "stretch" the cap as a strategy. But isn't that what the current 23 rule does?
 
RBC

RBC

Deceased
The APA certainly does have some baggage. And I have had my share of battles with them as well.

But that not withstanding, they bring a lot of players to pool. They are the largest league out there for a reason. They recruit better than any league out there.

I think they could do a lot more to promote professional pool. With the number of players they have, they could create a very significant fan base in very short order. With enough fans, we could have a fully supported pro tour that didn't need outside money to put on events. I for one would love to be able to advertise to all those fans.

Overall, the APA does more good than harm, so they are on the plus side. Sure, I'd like to see more, but that's up to them. Yes, there are lots of "nitty" things all over the APA, but those all come back to the players. Let's face it, if someone wants to be a nit, there's not much anyone can do about it. Including the league they play in.
 
deebee53

deebee53

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I've found APA much more enjoyable when I take it for what it is. A social league that shouldn't be taken too seriously.

I just laugh at all the @ssholes that get all upset and constantly call the league office about stuff. Luckily (or maybe unluckily) I got more important stuff to worry about.
 
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lorider

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lorider said:
this nit will play you 10 ball even any monday or thursday night you want on the bar tables, 10 games minimum. the other nights this nit plays leagues. :D

dont like 9 ball, dont like the slop. never play 1 pocket.

other than those stipulations this league player dont mind matching up with you. oh yea, we can play sat eve after napa league if jake aint runnin a tournament.

or we can play closed break , call your shot 8 ball, dont matter to me, just no 9 ball due to the slop or 1 pocket because i never play on the 9 footers. i know you play on both.
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just bumping this challenge. i see you logged in this morning, guess you missed my post.
 
trob

trob

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Here is a silly one. Last night in appa 9 ball the other teams had 5 but there numbers didn't work. They had a 7,6,6,3,2 we had a 9,4,4,3 We were short one because at the last minute someone couldn't show up. So technically according to the Apa they had to take 2 forfiets because they had 5 but couldn't play all 5 or the way around it Is for one of there players to leave and act like they only had 4. I'm relatively new to Apa but that seemed silly and childish so I acted like an adult and said look as long as your not trying to just play your high players we will just each take a forfiet. They had no plans to play both there 6s and 7 so no problem so it was cool. One of my players got pissed and walked out. Fortunately they already played lol wtf is the big deal. It was the last night of the session and we had first locked up. God let's just play and have some fun.
 
BrokeStroke

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Trob - you think THAT is silly?

I was at my friends' bar a couple months ago just shooting the shit and he told me about what happened during the APA league.

One of the two teams showed up early to practice, but their captain was on the phone with the LO. The other team showed up early too. The captain from the first team put the captain from the second team on the phone. There was a big argument and the second team ended up walking.

Evidently, a guy that was on the second teams roster passed away. But next to his name on the roster was a 'Past Due' amount of $25 for his yearly membership.

He died without ever shooting a game and the team just left him on the roster as a little tribute.

The first teams captain called the LO and demanded a forfeit for dues outstanding.

I doubt if they were awarded the forfeit and I think the other team just walked over the sheer stupidity.
 
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