The "TIMEOUT" during league play....

tksix · Dec 18, 2011

So calling a timeout good, bad, annoying?!

I think prior to playing a team needs to discuss this topic. Are we here to win, learn, have fun what?

Also, does the timeout help or hurt the player?

I am of the opinion that the timeout is GOOD, but only if the shooter calls it. I really don't like rail birds calling time outs. All this does is destroy any confidence the shooter had. Also I don't think it teaches that player anything, if they are a weaker player. They need to make the mistake, and then discuss the how's and why's after their shot selection fails.

Sometimes a player just wants to go for the tough cut instead of the safe. We all know the "right" shot, but we learned the right shot by losing games because of our decision. This is the same thing the inexperienced player needs to do. Get tired of losing, and you will discuss your options with an experienced player.

That said, the team will need to be on the same page as far as player skill level and the proper way to coach them.

What are your thoughts?

Mike

pooladdiction · Dec 18, 2011

I'm with you on not wanting to destroy the players confidence and they need to learn the hard way. I told them at the beginning of session that I'm not calling a timeout on you unless it's blatantly wrong otherwise you call it. So they'll only call me when they're hooked and I usually just point at a spot on the rail and hope for the best. Probably the number one thing I'll call timeout on them for is drawing for position on a ball. It's almost always easier to get position for your next ball with follow when possible. When dealing with low skill level APA players, the difference between one ball and hooked or 3 ball run and out can be huge. "draw might get the girls but it don't get the cash"- Bert Kinister

Loki4711 · Dec 18, 2011

I find that timeouts take way to long. Nobody sticks to the 1 min timeout in my league.

I find that it is not very beneficial for someone else to call my timeout. If I just ran 3 balls and set up to a shot on the fourth I want to keep on shooting. I have my rhythm down and if someone on my team interrupts me with a timeout I will most likely miss the shot not matter how easy. As pooladdiction said the player at the table should call the timeout unless absolutely necessary. I mostly utilize timeouts to find out the best safety or confirm the proper way to gain position on the next ball.

Those are my 2 cents. :grin:

TX Poolnut · Dec 18, 2011

Other people not playing the match shouldn't be able to call timeouts, except in the case of a referee. Team managers/ leaders shouldn't be able to call timeouts.

justadub · Dec 18, 2011

I've tried to have the better players on my teams try to avoid calling them unless its a major issue. But I always said to everyone, when we get to the playoffs, that may go out the window, as we'll need to optimize every possible option.

It's a tough issue, because everyone reacts differently. I know I didn't take the well initially, more because of the timing than reluctance to have help. once i'm down and ready to shoot, ya gotta let me go. Again, unless it's the playoffs and I'm gonna really screw something up. My best friend and I don't see eye to eye on this issue (and many others, league-related, heh heh) so I can't play Apa with him any more. Which is ok, cuz we spend a lot of time shooting pool anyway, so different teams is actually better now... He is also one of those who break the one minute limit on time outs, everytime. Makes him unpopular on league nights, heh.

. In his defense, he is trying to teach at the same time. I get it, but it drags on too long.

lukemindish · Dec 18, 2011

I tend to disagree with you on this topic. I call timeouts on some players on me and i have had timeouts called on me. Sometimes you dont see all the shots possible on the table and having an extra pair of eyes always helps.

rcarson · Dec 18, 2011

tksix said:
We all know the "right" shot, but we learned the right shot by losing games because of our decision.

I disagree with this statement, not everyone knows the "right" shot. I have played with some league players that really don't know the right shot and after 20 years, still don't know the right shot. Sometimes you have to be shown what the right shot is. The only way to do that is to take a time out when you notice your player not selecting the correct one.

tksix · Dec 18, 2011

rcarson said:
I disagree with this statement, not everyone knows the "right" shot. I have played with some league players that really don't know the right shot and after 20 years, still don't know the right shot. Sometimes you have to be shown what the right shot is. The only way to do that is to take a time out when you notice your player not selecting the correct one.

Sorry I should have qualified this statement. When I said "we" I was referring to experienced players, as opposed to novice players. I understand not everyone knows the "right" shot, including more experienced players. But, my shot selection may be very different than yours, so I would rather let the player shoot, and discuss the table lay out after the game.

OKAYLETSPLAY · Dec 18, 2011

shooter call only.............

tksix said:
So calling a timeout good, bad, annoying?!

I think prior to playing a team needs to discuss this topic. Are we here to win, learn, have fun what?

Also, does the timeout help or hurt the player?

I am of the opinion that the timeout is GOOD, but only if the shooter calls it. I really don't like rail birds calling time outs. All this does is destroy any confidence the shooter had. Also I don't think it teaches that player anything, if they are a weaker player. They need to make the mistake, and then discuss the how's and why's after their shot selection fails.

Sometimes a player just wants to go for the tough cut instead of the safe. We all know the "right" shot, but we learned the right shot by losing games because of our decision. This is the same thing the inexperienced player needs to do. Get tired of losing, and you will discuss your options with an experienced player.

That said, the team will need to be on the same page as far as player skill level and the proper way to coach them.

What are your thoughts?

Mike

jdxprs · Dec 18, 2011

Timeouts are good. A player on the sideline (railbird) is the best person to call the timeout. When you are at the table, you don't know what you don't know. Even a lower skill level player may see something you miss when at the table shooting. could be something as simple as an easier pattern than the one you're playing.

As far as "being in a rhythm," i don't believe in that. Every shot (other than position play of course) is independent of the last shot. Whether or not you made your last shot will not effect whether or not you make your next shot.

if you let weaker players learn the "hard way" by sitting back and watching them make mistakes, my bet is, your team might be fun to play on, but you aren't going to be going anywhere...

Bob Jewett · Dec 18, 2011

tksix said:
So calling a timeout good, bad, annoying?!
...
What are your thoughts?

Mike

I think it's better to not have them. It might lead to players preparing before league night, maybe by practicing or getting lessons.

Scott Lee · Dec 18, 2011

I agree with Bob, with his tongue-in-cheek response. In the leagues that allow coaching, the rules state specifically who can (and cannot), and when a timeout may be called. Not just anyone has that right. Timeouts are a good thing, in the right circumstances, as long as the 'coach' knows what they're talking about, and knows how to correctly advise the player. Most coaching errors I see, are ones where the coach suggests something that the lower skilled player has no ability to understand or execute. In those cases, coaching is a bad idea.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Bob Jewett said:
I think it's better to not have them. It might lead to players preparing before league night, maybe by practicing or getting lessons.

dr9ball · Dec 18, 2011

Bob Jewett said:
I think it's better to not have them. It might lead to players preparing before league night, maybe by practicing or getting lessons.

I agree with you Bob. Better to not have timeouts.

Banks · Dec 18, 2011

There's nothing wrong with timeouts. Heck, sometimes people just don't see the table the same way and need something pointed out, even the better players can get tunnel-vision.

Aside from that, different people vary with their acceptance. Some people get all huffy, some are open, blah blah blah. The most difficult part, I found, was to be able to generalize the instructions in such a way that even the lowest of players can understand what to do.

Rhythm isn't as much.. too many players start playing faster and cause their own downfall with that excuse because they begin taking things for granted.

As far as the learning goes.. people can learn a lot by being shown a simple safety that saves a game or how to hit a shot a little differently to make things easier on themselves.

DelaWho??? · Dec 18, 2011

I tell my lower handicap players, the ones that get 2 time out a rack, that I own one time out and they own the other. I will only call that time out if the player is obviously confused, or about to get into trouble.

Players that only get one a rack I leave to their own devices unless I see them about to sell out.

I do have a couple slow players on my team that I will call the time out on if they seem to be taking excessively long. That time out consists of a quick "what were you thinking of doing?" and an offer of an alternative or an encouragement to go for it. It helps move these players along. Nothing worse than a race to 3 taking an hour and a half.

Bob Jewett · Dec 18, 2011

Scott Lee said:
... Timeouts are a good thing, in the right circumstances, as long as the 'coach' knows what they're talking about, and knows how to correctly advise the player. Most coaching errors I see, are ones where the coach suggests something that the lower skilled player has no ability to understand or execute. In those cases, coaching is a bad idea.
...

I saw a prime example of this by a (visiting) league team. The level-2 was a little hesitant with three hangers left. The coach went into a long explanation of how spin off here and come over there and then at the end have an easy shot to get on the eight. The level-2 proceeded to miss the first hanger. In my view appropriate coaching might have been something like, "Try the 3 in the corner at medium speed. Just a nice easy stroke," which would have worked better and taken a tenth as long.

DogsPlayingPool · Dec 18, 2011

Time outs haven't been a problem in my league. One per rack that can be called only by the player or Captain. It's almost always the player who calls it.

But there are times where the Captain may need to point something out to the player unrelated specifically to how to play that rack, like to remind him how many balls they need to win the round.

Generally it just hasn't been an issue. Maybe a total of 5 more minutes over the course of the night is all.

Mr. Wiggles · Dec 18, 2011

Tabouli Time Out.

tksix said:
So calling a timeout good, bad, annoying?!

I think prior to playing a team needs to discuss this topic. Are we here to win, learn, have fun what?

Also, does the timeout help or hurt the player?

I am of the opinion that the timeout is GOOD, but only if the shooter calls it. I really don't like rail birds calling time outs. All this does is destroy any confidence the shooter had. Also I don't think it teaches that player anything, if they are a weaker player. They need to make the mistake, and then discuss the how's and why's after their shot selection fails.

Sometimes a player just wants to go for the tough cut instead of the safe. We all know the "right" shot, but we learned the right shot by losing games because of our decision. This is the same thing the inexperienced player needs to do. Get tired of losing, and you will discuss your options with an experienced player.

That said, the team will need to be on the same page as far as player skill level and the proper way to coach them.

What are your thoughts?

Mike

Much like the Lebanese ordourve Tabouli, timeouts are great or not for me! Much depends on the player, their ego, ability, level of competition (playoffs). Lower level players seem to be more receptive than higher players. Same for ladies. I happen to be the most defensive player on the teams I play on. No one need ever tell me to duck, more like shoot the ball! LOL! Seems most time outs are defensive. I love to call a defensive shot which results in a hook, which results in bih and then the game. Some teams have a secret thing they do like getting up from chair an suddenly watching that tells the player I must be wrong, and look for something else. Sort of cheating I suppose. I like higher levels where no coaching allowed. Use your own brain to beat me! Coaching is not allowed in Vegas BCA because of time restraints. Great for tournament directors, refs and all involved. The whole coaching to learn concept should be reevaluated by LO,s. Look at all the league players that are in the same boat they were in ten years ago. If you want your teammates to improve, suggest they take some lessons! Not to mention, get out and hit some balls on non league nights.

randyg · Dec 18, 2011

No time outs allowed in our BCAPL Masters League.

I think they have their place, but not where I play at.
randyg

RobMan · Dec 18, 2011

DelaWho??? said:
I do have a couple slow players on my team that I will call the time out on if they seem to be taking excessively long. That time out consists of a quick "what were you thinking of doing?" and an offer of an alternative or an encouragement to go for it. It helps move these players along. Nothing worse than a race to 3 taking an hour and a half.

Well said. I do the same. as a previous poster stated, the lower ranked players will only call a timeout when they are hooked .. too late then. I call time out a lot when they have ball in hand even ... to help them get to the next ball. Or perhaps if there is dead ball they do not see.

Bottomline, I'll call time out on the low ranked players .... and let the mid ranked call their own.

The "TIMEOUT" during league play....

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shut up and rack em

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