Watching The Color of Money for the 157th time and I have a question.....

(((Satori))) said:

Yeah

Poor Eddie stood no chance.

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Didn't say no chance. Just not a lock to win. Eddie was on the comeback right then and playing pool for the desire to win and not just the money. So it wasn't about beating Vince right then, but being present among the best and eventually being the best, again.

JB Cases said:

Didn't say no chance. Just not a lock to win. Eddie was on the comeback right then and playing pool for the desire to win and not just the money. So it wasn't about beating Vince right then, but being present among the best and eventually being the best, again.

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It is clear that he still possessed the same character flaw in TCOM that he possessed in TH. His history is filled with playing for the wrong reasons and making bad choices. His match with Vince at the end was both for the wrong reason and a bad choice.

(((Satori))) said:

It is clear that he still possessed the same character flaw in TCOM that he possessed in TH. His history is filled with playing for the wrong reasons and making bad choices. His match with Vince at the end was both for the wrong reason and a bad choice.

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I think we have a very different view on the match at the end. The match at the end, like the match at the end of The Hustler, is the redemption one, the one where you take the shot at being the best just to be the best and the money doesn't matter.

"About all that other stuff, I am not too proud of that, it's settled but it ain't finished, let's clean it up."

Cdryden said:

I think Vincent secretly knows Amos from the toy store, they both worked there and have been working on setting up Eddie from the start. He steered Amos for a cut of the action and then guilted Eddie into giving him some cash when he decided to quit!

I also have it on good authority that Carmen used to be a call girl.

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NOW it all makes sense!!!!

Carmen needs to bleach her teeth, cant put a girl like her on the pavement with a grill like that and expect to get paid, Pimpin' Fatboy, word up!

JB Cases said:

I think we have a very different view on the match at the end. The match at the end, like the match at the end of The Hustler, is the redemption one, the one where you take the shot at being the best just to be the best and the money doesn't matter.

"About all that other stuff, I am not too proud of that, it's settled but it ain't finished, let's clean it up."

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I definitely don't view the last match in TH as stemming from the same motivation as the last match in TCOM. Eddie had an overwhelming need for recognition, a need for approval, a need to show he was the best. This flaw showed itself in many ways in both TCOM & TH but perhaps none more prevelant than in his relationship with Bert. Bert used this need for recognition to mess with Eddie in the first match with fats by telling him he was a born loser and then stuck with this theme to control Eddie and make him Bert's lackey. Sarah's death was a real eye opener for Eddie. Eddie finally saw what was important in life and he played fats, not to be the best, but to escape the mental chains of Bert.

I view the match at the end of TCOM as being another poor choice by Eddie based on his need to be recognized from others. He was way overmatched and had no business playing other than to show that he had fully regressed into the same guy in the beginning of the movie TH.,

"I'm back"

John Novak said:

Have you confirmed this? Or is this just another guess like so many others before you.. Ive heard that explanation before. Ive read many threads on many forums and at no time has the TK6 plate ever been confirmed. Just seems to be one of those things left up to everyones imagination....Like in Pulp Fiction "Whats in the brief case"?

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I thought Freddy The Beard had an explanation about the license plate in another thread. The car belonged to someone else and that was his plate #

No

336 said:

The "TK 6" license plate came from the fact that Eddie sold Liquor. A case of one liter bottles of liquor contains 6 bottles. Take 6...

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A case of one liter liquor bottles contains 12 bottles-3 deep and four across.
A case of 1.75 liter bottles contains 6 - 2 deep and 3 across, but very few bars use 1.75 liter bottles.

Geez, am I the only one who ever worked behind a bar???

Seen it a hundred times at least....

JAM said:

Best part of the movie ---> HERE

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This is the first time I noticed this....

go to 8:40 in the above clip and watch the table as Deck is shooting. The CB is on the other end of the table and he's shooting the object balls straight into the holes with the cue stick....

They must not have been able to get enough takes with him actually making balls....lol...

Jaden

Never mind...

The table is actually setup for the 6-9 combo that eddie shoots a little later and amos is shooting the balls straight where the camera can't see to allow a non cut to that shot as their talking... paused at 8:47 will show that...

JAden

Jaden said:

The CB is on the other end of the table and he's shooting the object balls straight into the holes with the cue stick....

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Yep, remember noticing this years ago and laughing.

These threads disecting peoples opinions of TCOM and TH are a good read. If we had discussions about movies like this, instead of being forced to discuss Shakespeare and and so on, I might have done a bit better at school....Lol.

(((Satori))) said:

I definitely don't view the last match in TH as stemming from the same motivation as the last match in TCOM. Eddie had an overwhelming need for recognition, a need for approval, a need to show he was the best. This flaw showed itself in many ways in both TCOM & TH but perhaps none more prevelant than in his relationship with Bert. Bert used this need for recognition to mess with Eddie in the first match with fats by telling him he was a born loser and then stuck with this theme to control Eddie and make him Bert's lackey. Sarah's death was a real eye opener for Eddie. Eddie finally saw what was important in life and he played fats, not to be the best, but to escape the mental chains of Bert.

I view the match at the end of TCOM as being another poor choice by Eddie based on his need to be recognized from others. He was way overmatched and had no business playing other than to show that he had fully regressed into the same guy in the beginning of the movie TH.,

"I'm back"

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That's so cool that two people can view a film and come away with such opposing views on what it means. I think that probably means it was a pretty deep movie then or I am very shallow

I think Eddie played Fats to honor his original ambition to the be the best without the hustle. He didn't capitulate to Bert because to do so would have meant that Sarah died for nothing.

But cut off from "big time" pool he reverted to the "hustling" selling counterfeit liquor. Then when he decided to take Vincent on the road and teach him the tricks he tried to get back to the same hustling skills he had known.

But at the end of it he realized that what he told Vince at the restaurant in the beginning is what he really wanted, "pool excellence isn't about excellent pool, it's about becoming something, the best." He realized at the end that he wanted what Bert denied him, the chance to be the best without constraints, without management, without giving anyone a piece of his life.

That's what he meant with "I'm back!"

To me at least.

yep he could have won all the money

JB Cases said:

That's so cool that two people can view a film and come away with such opposing views on what it means. I think that probably means it was a pretty deep movie then or I am very shallow

I think Eddie played Fats to honor his original ambition to the be the best without the hustle. He didn't capitulate to Bert because to do so would have meant that Sarah died for nothing.

But cut off from "big time" pool he reverted to the "hustling" selling counterfeit liquor. Then when he decided to take Vincent on the road and teach him the tricks he tried to get back to the same hustling skills he had known.

But at the end of it he realized that what he told Vince at the restaurant in the beginning is what he really wanted, "pool excellence isn't about excellent pool, it's about becoming something, the best." He realized at the end that he wanted what Bert denied him, the chance to be the best without constraints, without management, without giving anyone a piece of his life.

That's what he meant with "I'm back!"

To me at least.

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Yeah, they both were awesome movies and I hardly think you are shallow. As with other topics, I enjoy reading your view of the subject.

It's funny that you mention his conversation with Vince about excellent pool. Remember his conversation with Sarah, when he asked her if he was a loser? He told her about the great feeling he gets from playing the game great. Sarah tried to guide him then by telling him that he was a winner. "Most people never get that feeling." She wanted to teach him that this ceeling should be the motivating force for why he plays and If he had picked up the knowledge she was laying down then his life would have been competly different. Take notice too that this feeling is why Vincent played before Eddie got ahold of him. But back to my point, Eddie refused to hear it because his mind was set. Pool and life were about being recognized as the best. This line of thinking cost him a lot. His relationship with Charlie, his relationship with Sarah, and later his relationship with Vincent.

At the end of the first movie I'm left with the feeling that he had learned through the death of Sarah what was really important in life and that he was even ok with leaving the competitive aspect of the game forever. But, in TCOM he shows that he had still not learned exactly what Sarah had wanted. It is interesting that he was now playing the roll of a kinder and gentler Bert. They say those who can't do teach and the lesson he was teaching was not to give a shit about what others think, just win the cash.. But when I look at the scene where Vince and Eddie play in Sharkeys it is clear to me what his real belief about how others see you is. I don't think he was upset because Vince had shown too much speed, it was because Vince did not recognize his talent. He then later lost to Amos and it devastated him, not because of the money but because he took it to mean thathe, as a whole, was not a winner and because of the status he had percieved himself tohave in Carmen and Vincent's eyes was gone. He no longer wanted to be around them.

He then made it his goal to be the best and he was so happy when he beat Vincent because he now had proof that he was a winner for both himself and others. But when he found out that Vincent had dumped, it tore him up again. He no longer wanted to win the tournament because that did nothing for him. He wanted Vincent. He decided to view himself as a winner again just like he had in the opening scene of TH and he was wanting to beat the best. He said I'm back because he was feeling good at the moment but I love the line because in my mind he had dismissed all of life's lessons and fully transformed back into who he was.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves with the movie as well. Its a shame it didn't become a franchise, like James Bond or something.

corvette1340 said:

Why the hell doesn't Tom Cruise ask Forrest Whittaker (Amos) to play after he beats Eddie?

It's not like Amos knows who Vince is because Vince is an unknown too. Would have been a perfect time to ask him for a spot or play even at worst and beat him out of everything he had on him.

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At this point, right after Eddie's loss, Vincent still had some compassion left for his friends and taking care of Eddie was what was important to him, not getting the dough. Eddies transformation of Vincent was not yet complete. He had taught him to have no compassion for your opponent but it wasn't until after he had a abandoned Vincent that his total transformation of Vincent was complete. That was a defining moment.

Anyone else think Eddie was giving him weight? I have only seen the movie twice and it has been years and years but I remember the last thing Forrest said "do you think I need to lose some weight" and thinking Eddie was spotting him and it was way out of line. Thinking they may have cut that part out since it fit better with the straight hustle that they depicted.

How exactly does the 'spotting' handicapping work, shot by shot, as mentioned in TCOM ?

Always wondered / never found any info online about this type of handicap system.

Thanx
Cheers.

I believe Eddie's feelings for the game and his comeback started at the very first place they went which ended up being a furniture warehouse. He stopped right before they entered and expressed his feelings at that moment as being excited and pumped up. I also believe that losing to amos was primarily on purpose. This was to cut ties with Vincent. Eddie is a hustler and the best at it according to his road partner in TH. In TH he played a great drunk in the opening scene if you recall. I believe it was an act to get Vincent out of the picture. At the end of TCOM Vincent screamed "You used us, you used me" and Eddie's reply was " Yes, yes I did but your in the big time now. Your not back in ____ playing with toy dolls. It's a wash. About all that other stuff I'm not real proud of. Let's clean it up. Let's finish this" (going on memory if some of the words are not in order or correct)

Eddie used Vincent to get back what he had lost and yearned for over the years and the Amos scene was planned on Eddie's part for a reason. In reality, no street hustler was going to beat neither one of them. This is my take on it.

Also in reality to be as good as Vincent was would have taken plenty of gambling, tournament play and road traveling. Years of it as a matter of fact. In TCOM he was green as green about anything pool related basically. This was the one aspect of the movie I could not stand.

corvette1340 said:

Why the hell doesn't Tom Cruise ask Forrest Whittaker (Amos) to play after he beats Eddie?

It's not like Amos knows who Vince is because Vince is an unknown too. Would have been a perfect time to ask him for a spot or play even at worst and beat him out of everything he had on him.

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... they were both Braves fans?

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