All full-splice cues are Franken-cues then.
Heaven forbid if they have sycamore veneers .
Heaven forbid someone cores BRW with BRW.
There are some boards that are just too ugly but can be sawed and cross-laminated. Works for good coring dowel to me.
Rosewood Question
- Thread starter Jon Manning
- Start date
All full-splice cues are Franken-cues then.
Heaven forbid if they have sycamore veneers .
Heaven forbid someone cores BRW with BRW.
There are some boards that are just too ugly but can be sawed and cross-laminated. Works for good coring dowel to me.
All full-splice cues are Franken-cues then.
Heaven forbid if they have sycamore veneers .
Heaven forbid someone cores BRW with BRW.
There are some boards that are just too ugly but can be sawed and cross-laminated. Works for good coring dowel to me.
I found a dead straight grained 4/4 dark Bolivian rosewood board that is over 30 inches long. I will try it out as a core one day.
You probably do know this, but European Sycamore (what most of the cue veneers are) is actually a maple species.
That BRW is not going to stay straight. It's awful.
Send it to me. It's just stinking your shop.
But it's a good stink. :thumbup2:
I DO appreciate your detailed response to my post as I'm sure a few other CMs who care about resonance do also.
As to my original question of: "Straight vs hi-figure; is one likely to 'hit' differently than the other ?",
I guess we'll have to save that for another day. As far as my demeanor and attitude, it's who I am.
As Joey said, let's keep it about Rosewood. There's far more to learn there than there is about me.
Truce? And understood...
As far as the BRW, the guys that know more than me (i.e. the guys building $30k+ guitars, a few I do keep in touch with), there is no discernable difference in "Q" with regards to grain direction, largely due to the similar stiffness values regardless of grain direction. The difference in guitar building is that we are optimizing the plate thicknesses since we have only a finite amount of energy to budget for plate movement. Thus, having zero Run out allows the builder to use the thinnest plate possible without compromising strength. With the cue, aside from providing a base for figured woods, the core can also relieve weight from a certain portion of the cue, allowing a builder to fine tune its balance.
I did propose in the General section the use of a frequency analyzer as used in golf shafts, to measure cue shaft frequency (to dial in stiffness), and pretty sure there are instruments that will measure the butt's resonant frequency (no flatulence jokes pkease!)
Got a few stinkers here. I better keep waxing them.
So glad Bob's my neighbor.
First, I would like to thank all the contributing cue makers! I thought it was a straight forward question when I posted it.... boy, was I wrong. But, in asking the question and reading all the responses, I'm learing about my favorite wood and hopefully everyone else is also learning. I truly believe that the more info we have (as a community) makes us better customers, and most likely builders.
Secondly, just because someone gets under your skin or has a different opinion doesn't mean you have to belittle them on a public fourm. I realize that's a lot to ask, but restrain yourself and let's keep this on Rosewood.
Does anyone have access to scientific tests on rosewoods or any wood for that matter the explains why some are better suited for acoustic instruments than others?
For example I know Walnut is highly sought after for gun stocks because of their abality to take and absorb shock but not so much for cues. I know that's not scientific but you get the point, I'm sure there is research on the subject, I've just never seen it.
Secondly, just because someone gets under your skin or has a different opinion doesn't mean you have to belittle them on a public fourm. I realize that's a lot to ask, but restrain yourself and let's keep this on Rosewood.
Does anyone have access to scientific tests on rosewoods or any wood for that matter the explains why some are better suited for acoustic instruments than others?
For example I know Walnut is highly sought after for gun stocks because of their abality to take and absorb shock but not so much for cues. I know that's not scientific but you get the point, I'm sure there is research on the subject, I've just never seen it.
There's no "better" woods, just woods better suited for The sound one seeks. I love the sound of walnut guitars, kind of a slightly warmer maple. May sound counterintuitive, but Gabon ebony is closer in sound to maple than BRW.
Maple is generally characterized by a quick attack and fast decay. Which may not sound ideal for Celtic aires, but is great for jazz and bluegrass, where there are fast changes and flurries of notes, and you need the previous notes to stop. As opposed to some of the new-age repertoire, which mostly is solo, requiring the sustain and overtones of rosewood. Again, the top woods are the predominant factor in a guitar's sound, the back and sides are like the EQ and effects...
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Sometimes a piece of wood looks amazing as-is and I find it hard to cut or use it on a project, so I just hold it and stare at it for a while, and put it back in the stash... Those are stash woods!
Brw
In regards to whether to core, or not to core, BRW is a no brainer for me.
I would not insult the Dalbergia Nigra Gods by coring BRW. If you are trying to "stabilize" the wood to keep it from moving take into consideration that any BRW you are fortunate enough to have is probably from a tree that was felled at least 75 years ago and cut into lumber at least 50 years ago. If it hasn't moved by now it is not going to move.
BRW is unique in its properties in a very special way. That is why it is the best tonal wood for guitars, and yes--pool cues. There is an oil, that is unique to BRW, that drys out over the years (after about 50 years) of being felled that turns into microscopic sized crystals. These crystals rub together, when disturbed, and hence the lovely resonance that only BRW emits. That is the main reason those BRW prewar Martins sound so lovely.
In summation: DO NOT CORE BRW. You are defeating the purpose of its intended use--that is to make sweet music- whether it be in a guitar or a pool cue.
In regards to whether to core, or not to core, BRW is a no brainer for me.
I would not insult the Dalbergia Nigra Gods by coring BRW. If you are trying to "stabilize" the wood to keep it from moving take into consideration that any BRW you are fortunate enough to have is probably from a tree that was felled at least 75 years ago and cut into lumber at least 50 years ago. If it hasn't moved by now it is not going to move.
BRW is unique in its properties in a very special way. That is why it is the best tonal wood for guitars, and yes--pool cues. There is an oil, that is unique to BRW, that drys out over the years (after about 50 years) of being felled that turns into microscopic sized crystals. These crystals rub together, when disturbed, and hence the lovely resonance that only BRW emits. That is the main reason those BRW prewar Martins sound so lovely.
In summation: DO NOT CORE BRW. You are defeating the purpose of its intended use--that is to make sweet music- whether it be in a guitar or a pool cue.
interesting article on pre war D45 martins
and a pic of the rosewood backing
i hope this of interest in the cue makers thread
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/20677-pre-war-perfection-the-martin-d-45?page=1
...
One of the most remarkable things about these pre-war Martins is their structural stability over 80 years. It’s impossible to know all the factors that account for this, but one might have to do with how the wood was seasoned. As Boak explains, “On the third floor and in the attic of the Old North Street Martin factory, there were racks for sets of spruce, mahogany, and rosewood for tops, backs, and sides. The warmth and relative dryness in the ceiling and attic helped season the wood.”/QUOTE]
Great article. Thanks.
Now I feel bad for peeps who live in humid areas.
One of the most remarkable things about these pre-war Martins is their structural stability over 80 years. It’s impossible to know all the factors that account for this, but one might have to do with how the wood was seasoned. As Boak explains, “On the third floor and in the attic of the Old North Street Martin factory, there were racks for sets of spruce, mahogany, and rosewood for tops, backs, and sides. The warmth and relative dryness in the ceiling and attic helped season the wood.”/QUOTE]
Great article. Thanks.
Now I feel bad for peeps who live in humid areas.
The common practice is to build in a RH of about 45%, which puts the wood at a "halfway" moisture content. Amazing still that steel strings exert about 160-180 pounds of pull in the bridge, which is glued to the top with no mechanical means other than the loose bridge pins.
To those who have difficulty in understanding what they read or would rather mentally insert their own version,
I never said I was opposed to using two or more different woods in cues. Where did that come from ?
I don't care who started that thinking but it's wrong. I don't build 30" one wood handles either.
I use several woods in the same cue. Like Luthiers, I build for harmonics and resonance.
I just don't put them inside of one another, ie, coring. Apparently, some have very creative imaginations.
And full-splice being a Franken-cue ??? Please, someone should know better. F/S is the best hit you can get.
I never said I was opposed to using two or more different woods in cues. Where did that come from ?
I don't care who started that thinking but it's wrong. I don't build 30" one wood handles either.
I use several woods in the same cue. Like Luthiers, I build for harmonics and resonance.
I just don't put them inside of one another, ie, coring. Apparently, some have very creative imaginations.
And full-splice being a Franken-cue ??? Please, someone should know better. F/S is the best hit you can get.
While BRW is considered one of the "best" tonally and visually, it may not be the most appropriate depending on the musicians' needs. And at the thicknesses guitar builders deal with, .100" or less) the exact thing that makes the sound desirable is the same thing that makes them prone to cracking...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIOAn55nMVU
That might interest you and KJ.
Even if KJ is in a bad mood.
This part specially.
https://youtu.be/lIOAn55nMVU?t=462
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIOAn55nMVU
That might interest you and KJ.
Even if KJ is in a bad mood.
This part specially.
https://youtu.be/lIOAn55nMVU?t=462
I've met Linda Manzer twice, at the Woodstock International Acoustic Guitar Showcase... a great person to meet, and she's had a few innovations thathave been used \by many builders...
Check out the works of Ervin Somogyi and his apprentices - Jason Kostal, Mario Beauregard, Raymond Kraut, Leonardo Buendia, Michi Matsuda,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIOAn55nMVU
That might interest you and KJ.
Even if KJ is in a bad mood.
This part specially.
https://youtu.be/lIOAn55nMVU?t=462
Thanx Joey, very interesting vid. We have a few Luthiers in my area. I bought a Logan lathe from one (Stan).
I don't think that he used the lathe which is probably why he sold it. Stan showed me his work and I was impressed.
Nice guy but life had not been kind to him. In your vid(s) I noticed that the fret-boards appeared to be Ebony.
Take a look at this vid and tell me if you agree or not that Gary's F/brd is Bois de Rose.
Hard to tell with the lighting. That man can make a guitar literally cry. I miss him terribly.
In the first vid, he's about 20 yrs older than in the second vid. He died shortly after, cancer I believe.
He can make me cry as well most everytime I listen to him. Yeah, I've got mood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkUpfw4Hf3w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o7BwblazjQ
Well, even if it's not, you got to hear one of the best.
Made me look.
https://www.groundguitar.com/gary-moore-gear/#gary-moores-guitar-picks
Looks like stained maple or myrtle to me.