is there any significant difference in carbon fiber shafts

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I like stiff ,biliard taper heavy maple shafts
it seems like the cue ball his where i am looking

pro taper throws the cue ball unpredictably
the old maple stiff,also draws the ball more consistently

i honestly think the whole thing is hype

same for golf,when all is said and done steel shafts and muscle back irons are what top player usually play

i preferred them myself when i was playing

forgiveness this ,high tech that

true top players might play lighter shafts on their driver but that is to get lighter,thus longer,thus higher speed
in pool we don't need any of that

Try the Becue with the 5.1 conical taper shaft.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Check out the video I just posted. It covers these topics fairly well:



NV J.12 - How to Select a Pool Cue, Cue Ball Deflection, Carbon Fiber, Revo vs. Cuetec



Enjoy,

Dave


As I study what you shared, two considerations occur under one premise...

Premise:
While natural pivot lengths, BHE and FHE may keep the ball on your line of aim for off-center hits, spin-induced-throw (SIT) is still a factor

Thought 1: A firm hit may reduce swerve and also reduce SIT. Conversely a soft hit will increase swerve and SIT.

Thought 2: A thin hit doesn’t take much SIT vs. a full hit will take notably more throw.

One more premise suggests a conclusion to me...

Premise 2: The table will challenge you with shots that require off-center hits as well as requiring various thin/thick hits at firm/slow speed.

Conclusion: Keeping the cueball on a line of aim with BHE/FHE/PivotLength is only one factor in a multifaceted shot. It isn’t the only thing to think about. In fact, it might be misleading to focus on it at all. It’s better to let your experience and feel dictate all considerations. Perhaps trusting automatic aiming if you’ve drilled/actioned (sic) properly is ideal. Especially if BHE/FHE is applied after settling down on the shot. My gut says any unnecessary movement after stepping into the shot (besides stroking) is ill-advised.

Thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

conetip

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I tested a prototype carbon-fiber shaft many years ago (with high-speed video), where the stiffness of the shaft contributed to this problem. The shaft did not deflect away from the ball enough and it returned too quickly creating a double hit with more CB deflection than expected. The hit seemed good in real-time (except for the bad CB direction), but the effect was clear in super slow motion (unfortunately, I didn't keep or post this video). I have not experienced this with any of my testing with either the Revo or the new Cuetec carbon fiber shafts.

Here's a pertinent quote from the maximum english resource page:

When using a very heavy and/or stiff cue, the maximum tip offset (and maximum spin) possible with a good hit can be more limiting than normal. As shown in the plots on pages 7 and 8 in TP A.30, with a hit close to the miscue limit, the CB might not separate from the tip fast enough. Also, with a stiff shaft (e.g., a carbon fiber shaft) the end of the cue won't deflect away from the ball as much as normal and will tend to flex back toward the CB faster (see cue vibration for video illustrations). These effects can result in a double hit or push that might not even be directly noticeable; although, the CB will squirt more than expected (as with a miscue shot). The 2nd-to-last shot (before the miscue) in HSV A.106 visually shows how close the tip can come to a double hit even with a typical-weight LD shaft, which is not very stiff. For more info on this topic, see "Coriolis was brilliant ... but he didn't have a high-speed camera - Part IV: maximum cue tip offset" (BD, October, 2005).


Regards,
Dave

Here is the Video that Dr Dave was referring to. It is from 2009 with a then 4th generation cuttlefishcues carbon shaft with a patented cue tip system.
https://youtu.be/r6xJ93F4KRg

There was a lot learnt from this video and the current 5th generation was developed as a result of this testing. Thanks to Dr Dave and his time and enthusiasm to put the video together.
Neil
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Check out the video I just posted. It covers these topics fairly well:

NV J.12 - How to Select a Pool Cue, Cue Ball Deflection, Carbon Fiber, Revo vs. Cuetec
As I study what you shared, two considerations occur under one premise...

Premise:
While natural pivot lengths, BHE and FHE may keep the ball on your line of aim for off-center hits, spin-induced-throw (SIT) is still a factor

Thought 1: A firm hit may reduce swerve and also reduce SIT. Conversely a soft hit will increase swerve and SIT.

Thought 2: A thin hit doesn’t take much SIT vs. a full hit will take notably more throw.
I compensate aim for throw (SIT or CIT) during my center-ball alignment, before the pivot adjustment for squirt and swerve, per the info and demos in:

NV J.9 - "Got English?" – How to Aim Using Sidespin, With Game-Situation Examples

One more premise suggests a conclusion to me...

Premise 2: The table will challenge you with shots that require off-center hits as well as requiring various thin/thick hits at firm/slow speed.

Conclusion: Keeping the cueball on a line of aim with BHE/FHE/PivotLength is only one factor in a multifaceted shot. It isn’t the only thing to think about. In fact, it might be misleading to focus on it at all. It’s better to let your experience and feel dictate all considerations. Perhaps trusting automatic aiming if you’ve drilled/actioned (sic) properly is ideal. Especially if BHE/FHE is applied after settling down on the shot. My gut says any unnecessary movement after stepping into the shot (besides stroking) is ill-advised.

Thoughts?
Obviously, the best way to aim and align, taking everything into consideration, is to do so naturally (without having to think) as a result of countless hours of successful practice and experience. However, most pool players (me included) don't have perfect intuition for everything yet and can benefit from a methodical approach. But I do all of my thinking before a shot. I first adjust my aim for throw, if necessary, while "aiming while standing." I also observe the shot distance and think about the shot speed while I am standing. This tells me the BHE/FHE percentages that will be required (based on my BHE/FHE calibration system). I have my calibration table memorized, so no thinking is required here (just rote recall). Now, without any more thinking or judgement required, I get down into my stance with a center-ball alignment (which is very easy to visualize), with my vision center over this line (before, during, and after getting down). Once down, and after I've verified my center-ball alignment and aim, I do the pre-decided BHE/FHE pivots (if the shot requires sidespin), take a practice stroke, and then and I shoot (all with no thinking whatsoever). The pivots do not bother or affect me one bit.

Before implementing this system in my game, I used to spend too much time trying to make small aim adjustments based on experience-based judgement while down on the shot (taking into consideration throw, squirt, and throw all at once). Now, I don't have to judge or think about anything. I just pivot and shoot.

Regards,
Dave
 
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MalibuMike

Banned
I want a Mezz Ignite and that is that!

I don't like Predator products or the company, but sadly I couldn't help like playing with it, That Said, my Instructor Oscar Dominguez who is sponsored by Mezz, I saw playing with a Revo, and I asked him what the deal was and he said... "Just wait Mezz has something awesome in the works! and it will fit my Schons! now if they could just get a faux maple color to them, astically they would be awesome as well!
I want my Mezz!
 

lakeman77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I doubt Predator actually makes the shaft. I know for carbon bicycle frames, basically only two companies 'em, one in Japan, they will make 'em to what ever spec's you want. The machinery is very expensive. I think the same might be true for golf clubs.
That said, they make good ones.
 
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gypsy_soul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A hollowed carbon fiber with foam inside has better feel than a "solid" high dollar shaft ?

Hollow , foam , no thanks ! Guess I'm old school till the end I'll play maple and be the underdog ! Practice , gamble and have fun .
 

gypsy_soul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I doubt Predator actually makes the shaft. I know for carbon bicycle frames, basically only two companies in China make all of 'em to what ever spec's you want. The machinery is very expensive.
That said, they make good ones.

One of my Mountain bikes has carbon rims and they are super stiff . Carbon frames are supposed to be stifff as well so maybe the cues are the same . Ya think lol
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I conducted a series of double blind scientific tests on all available Carbon Fiber shafts and found absolutely no differences in irritability amongst the various models.

Peer Review has yet to be fully completed, but I have 100% confidence in my findings;
 
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joealb

Registered
Carbon shafts should remain straight (not warp). I've used a graphite shaft that is still straight (like new) but I had to wear a glove to eliminate it sticking. I wonder if the Carbon shaft also has that sticking feeling?
 

poolhustler

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't like Predator products or the company, but sadly I couldn't help like playing with it, That Said, my Instructor Oscar Dominguez who is sponsored by Mezz, I saw playing with a Revo, and I asked him what the deal was and he said... "Just wait Mezz has something awesome in the works! and it will fit my Schons! now if they could just get a faux maple color to them, astically they would be awesome as well!
I want my Mezz!

Funny that OD is playing with a Revo…. I let him try mine out about a year ago and he was less than impressed. Next thing I knew he was using one!!
 
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