Shooting Hard vs Shooting Soft

1. Shooting soft makes it more likely that an unlevel table will distort the path of the ball.
2. Shooting soft also makes throw more likely, and a kick or skid from a dirty ball more likely.
3. But shooting hard can also make the pocket play smaller because it might get bounced out of the pocket by the points.

DrCue'sProtege said:

Why is it easier to make a ball shooting it hard instead of soft? What is it about shooting soft that reduces accuracy? And what does it mean when they say a ball will "roll off" if you hit it soft?

I've watched a lot of Accu-Stats videos from the Sands Regency tournament in Reno and the US Open and rarely do you see a top pro just slow roll a shot. Buddy Hall even talked about a certain soft shot once and said....."This is one that I would roll"...….

r/DCP

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I have never heard that shooting hard makes it easier to make the ball. I think everyone has a comfortable stroke speed and that is probably the best speed to use if you are just trying to cinch a ball, usually position determines the speed of the shot. Given the choice I am going to shoot most of my shots a little above pocket speed. I can always tell when opponents are not familiar with Diamonds, they fire shots in fast like they do on their Valleys and rattle balls on Diamonds all the time. I also noticed that a lot of players like to fire in the 8 ball very hard, always makes me laugh a little when my opponent does that and rattles one. :lol::lol::lol:

Shooting hard actually shrinks a pocket! Soft enables you to cheat more of a pocket.

DrCue'sProtege said:

Why is it easier to make a ball shooting it hard instead of soft?

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Nothing; because the physics is much simpler hitting slow than hitting fast.

What is it about shooting soft that reduces accuracy?

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Only an unlevel table or bad points on the cloth.

And what does it mean when they say a ball will "roll off" if you hit it soft?

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Unlevel table.

I think we all have a "comfort range" of stroke speeds - speeds outside that range, faster or slower, are less likely to be accurate. The comfort range expands with practice.

pj
chgo

DrCue'sProtege said:

Why is it easier to make a ball shooting it hard instead of soft? What is it about shooting soft that reduces accuracy? And what does it mean when they say a ball will "roll off" if you hit it soft?



I've watched a lot of Accu-Stats videos from the Sands Regency tournament in Reno and the US Open and rarely do you see a top pro just slow roll a shot. Buddy Hall even talked about a certain soft shot once and said....."This is one that I would roll"...….



r/DCP

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It’s not easier but it is on line. A soft shot has push. You have to allow for the drift/lope/push. I’ve heard it referred to by many names.

A hard shot skids down the path/line then rolls down that line. No drift/lope/push, so it seemingly stays more true.

Not sure I have explained it well but that is the difference for me between rolling it and nailing it.


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DrCue'sProtege said:

Why is it easier to make a ball shooting it hard instead of soft? What is it about shooting soft that reduces accuracy? And what does it mean when they say a ball will "roll off" if you hit it soft?

r/DCP

Click to expand...

Set up a dead on combo to the corner pocket at the head spot.
....put the cue ball in the center of the table.....
...hit the first ball dead on...the cue ball would go to the center of the end rail if no balls were there....
.....roll the combo pocket weight...
...if you were accurate, the combo should hit the end rail...
...it misses by 2 to 8 inches depending on the weight and cleanliness of the cloth.

Now set up the same combo...hit it straight on, like before....
....but hit it hard....
...the ball will go straight into the pocket.

That’s why shooting above a certain speed gives you more accuracy....
....the ball goes where your logical mind thinks it will go....
...the speed eliminates cling.

Not sure how the CTE guys handle that

pt109 said:

Set up a dead on combo to the corner pocket at the head spot.

....put the cue ball in the center of the table.....

...hit the first ball dead on...the cue ball would go to the center of the end rail if no balls were there....

.....roll the combo pocket weight...

...if you were accurate, the combo should hit the end rail...

...it misses by 2 to 8 inches depending on the weight and cleanliness of the cloth.



Now set up the same combo...hit it straight on, like before....

....but hit it hard....

...the ball will go straight into the pocket.



That’s why shooting above a certain speed gives you more accuracy....

....the ball goes where your logical mind thinks it will go....

...the speed eliminates cling.



Not sure how the CTE guys handle that

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This is correct. I have missed a many shot by slow rolling. In particular shots with slight angle to the object ball. When the two balls collide at slow speed the object ball is thrown at an extreme because of the clinging of the balls. They stick to each other for fractions of a second and the object ball is thrown off its intended course. You can actually see the object ball pickup spin and or skid. I have missed shots that are 4 inches from the hole this way by trying to hold position with a slow roll. Straight in doesn’t seem to matter much. But, it’s a real thing that only after you shoot it you go WTF and realize you should have executed that shot differently. The more dirt/grime on the balls or cloth the worse it is.

As far as firing the 8 ball or 9 into the pocket that’s different. If you miss it at higher speed then you plain and simply hit it bad. However those are the money balls and as such many a player are nervous. So they try to compensate by stroking a little harder and also to hopefully not leave the ball hanging in the pocket should they miss.


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Patrick Johnson said:

I think we all have a "comfort range" of stroke speeds - speeds outside that range, faster or slower, are less likely to be accurate. The comfort range expands with practice.

pj
chgo

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Your mechanics break down when trying to hit a ball harder me thinks.
Jason

jasonlaus said:

Your mechanics break down when trying to hit a ball harder me thinks.

Jason

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I think it’s the opposite. But, it depends on the shot


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jasonlaus said:

Your mechanics break down when trying to hit a ball harder me thinks.
Jason

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It depends on the player somewhat...yips show up more often on slow shots...
....over medium speed, you tend to accelerate into the ball....
....a delicate shot under heat often results in ‘pulling’ your cue.

This

pt109 said:

It depends on the player somewhat...yips show up more often on slow shots...
....over medium speed, you tend to accelerate into the ball....
....a delicate shot under heat often results in ‘pulling’ your cue.

Click to expand...

I agree, I believe what I have written below explains how various speeds tend to work. If using the pendulum, when other speeds aren't needed it is best to let gravity do most of the work I believe. A little impulsion, not a bunch.

Like a carpenter's hammer, there is a natural speed to hit with a cue particularly when using a pendulum or modified pendulum. If you use close to the same length stroke while trying to hold back the cue there are all kinds of bogus things happening in your arm that don't happen during a natural speed shot. Bunting is probably the best option using a shorter stroke but not the perfect solution either, Might not be one.

Forcing too much speed out of your muscles also causes them to perform differently than near the narrow range of natural speed. Still doing basically the same thing as a normal shot but at higher speeds the typically different strengths of different muscles come into play.

Hu

pt109 said:

Set up a dead on combo to the corner pocket at the head spot.

....put the cue ball in the center of the table.....

...hit the first ball dead on...the cue ball would go to the center of the end rail if no balls were there....

.....roll the combo pocket weight...

...if you were accurate, the combo should hit the end rail...

...it misses by 2 to 8 inches depending on the weight and cleanliness of the cloth.



Now set up the same combo...hit it straight on, like before....

....but hit it hard....

...the ball will go straight into the pocket.



That’s why shooting above a certain speed gives you more accuracy..

Click to expand...

Agreed, but the why is still there.

In your example, the cling/throw/push/CIT is exaggerated due to the double mass but it is the very reason we miss slow shots.

The hard shot, regardless of the mass, sends the object ball skidding down the tangent line. Then rolling to its target but lacking pocket speed to accept a less than perfect hit. So, not sure it’s more accurate for pocketing balls. And harder to control the cue ball.

Completely agree with your description. Just not sure we’ve accurately defined the “why”. Not sure my wordy response has done that either.




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Scratch85 said:

Agreed, but the why is still there.

In your example, the cling/throw/push/CIT is exaggerated due to the double mass but it is the very reason we miss slow shots.

The hard shot, regardless of the mass, sends the object ball skidding down the tangent line. Then rolling to its target but lacking pocket speed to accept a less than perfect hit. So, not sure it’s more accurate for pocketing balls. And harder to control the cue ball.

Completely agree with your description. Just not sure we’ve accurately defined the “why”. Not sure my wordy response has done that either.




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As a snooker player, I was raised on 26 ounce cloth.....
...when I played in England on 40 ounce cloth, it was shocking to me.
Picture the cue ball on the yellow spot and a ball on the brown spot....
...you tell most Canucks to roll the ball into the green ball pocket....pocket weight....
....they tend to hit it thick....missing the pocket by over two inches up the long rail.

I’m no scientist...but as a player, I see it as resistance to impact....the balls stay together
too long.

I think even the UK players that were raised on thick cloth still paid for that stuff....
...one of the reasons, I feel, that the players are making more big runs is because they’re
playing on faster cloth....there’s a natural evolution also, of course.

A half ball angle, at a higher than medium speed, is the same on 26 or 40 ounce cloth.

Other posters are correct that hitting it soft gives you a bigger margin of error but the reason it feels like hitting hit hard makes you more accurate is that a faster cue ball on a cut shot equals less CIT. Also a softer hit with any English will throw the ob more. And if you're jacked up at all a soft hit off center will masse the cb sooner. Dr. Dave's site has a lot of info on this

ShootingArts said:

I agree, I believe what I have written below explains how various speeds tend to work. If using the pendulum, when other speeds aren't needed it is best to let gravity do most of the work I believe. A little impulsion, not a bunch.

Like a carpenter's hammer, there is a natural speed to hit with a cue particularly when using a pendulum or modified pendulum. If you use close to the same length stroke while trying to hold back the cue there are all kinds of bogus things happening in your arm that don't happen during a natural speed shot. Bunting is probably the best option using a shorter stroke but not the perfect solution either, Might not be one.

Forcing too much speed out of your muscles also causes them to perform differently than near the narrow range of natural speed. Still doing basically the same thing as a normal shot but at higher speeds the typically different strengths of different muscles come into play.

Hu

Click to expand...

You know, Hu, I loved watching Efren in his prime...not a particularly nice stroke, but he
was the best I ever saw at hitting a ball slow under heat.
He could accelerate into the ball at a slow speed......
...and on many of his miracle shots, I suspect he was DECELERATING for a special effect.

pt109 said:

You know, Hu, I loved watching Efren in his prime...not a particularly nice stroke, but he

was the best I ever saw at hitting a ball slow under heat.

He could accelerate into the ball at a slow speed......

...and on many of his miracle shots, I suspect he was DECELERATING for a special effect.

Click to expand...

Not a particularly nice stroke? He had and has a beautiful stroke. The warm up strokes have nothing to do with the actual stroke. Efren actually strikes the ball identical for every shot. Slow, fast, high, low. You name it. His stroke was beautiful. He strokes through each and every shot. Go back and watch again.


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I was just talking about this with some people when I played some on Sunday.

There was a young guy and an older lady who both came over to ask me some questions and I went to their tables for a little while to help them out.

I told both of them that the first thing I would do if I ever were to try to teach them is to have them spend an hour or so of setting up simple shots and hitting them HARD, over and over and over.

Everybody today has a tendency to "baby" the balls and they don't have a stroke. When it comes time to "let the dogs out", they don't have stroke enough to do it.

I play with TOI and I hit the balls firmer than most people. When I hit the balls you can hear it and you can hear it when it hits the back of the pocket. The tables at Brian's don't have the fastest cloth or rails, either, so you have to put some "ooomph" in the shot in order to drive the cue ball 4 or 5 rails without a spinning cue ball. My cue ball is usually travelling "flat".

Most of the people I see at the other tables have a "jab-type" stroke with little, if any, follow through. They hit the balls at a speed that they barely reach the pockets and they don't have enough "sauce" on the cue ball to ever get any kind of position.

I think everybody would benefit from spending some time actually "banging" the balls around the table in order to get the feel of how to let your stroke out. If you are bunting all the time, it's hard to hit a line drive or a home run when you get up to bat.