14.1 Strategy

mthornto

mthornto

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think this has gotten a little too personal, and the bigger picture is getting lost. I honestly think the disagreeing parties are closer then they think. This is a straight pool forum, can't we try to raise the bar a bit?

I believe stating the disagreement as an issue of playing 8-6 vs big runs is not all that accurate or beneficial. Instead, let’s discuss the larger issue of when to vs when not to play safe. That is really what this comes down to. In every match, we have to make decisions at the table that dictate the direction a rack takes. I think some of these decisions must factor in our current skill level.

Let’s look at a specific situation that comes up a lot for players like myself that do not yet play strong and see how each side would choose to play it. I know I will learn from the all answers.


http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AQlx4BDVt3...HATt3ICAn3JHGh4KEMO3LBrR3MElF4NByc1OIrk3PCCC@

What to you do with this? I tried to set it up so that there is a shot on the five, but it is hard. I also setup the 10 so that it should be dead in the corner.

I see two choices:
1) Pocket the 5, 15, 1, then the 10 as a secondary break.
2) Soft stop shot on the 6 stopping the cue ball and rolling the 10 to the rail for a legal safe.

A good player probably chooses option 1 (maybe a different pattern, but you get the idea). Would a weaker player be better off playing the safety now?

Are situations like this not what the disagreement is really about?
 
Steve Lipsky

Steve Lipsky

On quest for perfect 14.1
Silver Member
mthornto said:
I think this has gotten a little too personal, and the bigger picture is getting lost. I honestly think the disagreeing parties are closer then they think. This is a straight pool forum, can't we try to raise the bar a bit?

I believe stating the disagreement as an issue of playing 8-6 vs big runs is not all that accurate or beneficial. Instead, let’s discuss the larger issue of when to vs when not to play safe. That is really what this comes down to. In every match, we have to make decisions at the table that dictate the direction a rack takes. I think some of these decisions must factor in our current skill level.

Let’s look at a specific situation that comes up a lot for players like myself that do not yet play strong and see how each side would choose to play it. I know I will learn from the all answers.


http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AQlx4BDVt3...HATt3ICAn3JHGh4KEMO3LBrR3MElF4NByc1OIrk3PCCC@

What to you do with this? I tried to set it up so that there is a shot on the five, but it is hard. I also setup the 10 so that it should be dead in the corner.

I see two choices:
1) Pocket the 5, 15, 1, then the 10 as a secondary break.
2) Soft stop shot on the 6 stopping the cue ball and rolling the 10 to the rail for a legal safe.

A good player probably chooses option 1 (maybe a different pattern, but you get the idea). Would a weaker player be better off playing the safety now?

Are situations like this not what the disagreement is really about?
Click to expand...


M,

With the 1 ball by that corner pocket, you should play the 5 with no fear. There is no scratch, because you would hit the 1. This might be where the difference between an advanced player and an intermediate player would come into play; the advanced player should feel comfortable enough making the 5 that he can play it with some english to avoid the 1 altogether. The intermediate player might put all his energy into just making the 5, and let the cueball land wherever it will naturally.

But because of the dead 10, no matter where your cueball lands it's not a problem. Notice that not only is the 10 dead, but you don't even have to hit it first. As long as you hit the 3, you'll make the 10.

So the truth is, because you can hit the 3 from basically anywhere on the table your cueball might land after making the 5, all levels of players in my opinion should be offensive here.

To be honest, because neither the 1 nor the 15 are trouble balls (and can in fact serve as nice insurance balls after hitting the rack open with the 3), I would probably look to play the 5 and then the 10 immediately after.

- Steve
 
Drew

Drew

Got a little dog in you?
Silver Member
Steve Lipsky said:
M,

With the 1 ball by that corner pocket, you should play the 5 with no fear. There is no scratch, because you would hit the 1. This might be where the difference between an advanced player and an intermediate player would come into play; the advanced player should feel comfortable enough making the 5 that he can play it with some english to avoid the 1 altogether. The intermediate player might put all his energy into just making the 5, and let the cueball land wherever it will naturally.

But because of the dead 10, no matter where your cueball lands it's not a problem. Notice that not only is the 10 dead, but you don't even have to hit it first. As long as you hit the 3, you'll make the 10.

So the truth is, because you can hit the 3 from basically anywhere on the table your cueball might land after making the 5, all levels of players in my opinion should be offensive here.

To be honest, because neither the 1 nor the 15 are trouble balls (and can in fact serve as nice insurance balls after hitting the rack open with the 3), I would probably look to play the 5 and then the 10 immediately after.

- Steve
Click to expand...

Hmm...you've left out the option of missing the 5 and selling out the rack. In this particular situation, the 5 is a relatively simple cut, but suppose it were a few inches closer to the long rail. This increases the shot difficulty to the point where I would rather play safe. The foot spot looks obstructed so call safe and bank the 5 towards the side. Follow the cb back to the top of the stack hopefully freezing to the 4. Should the 5 drop in the side, it spots behind the 4 and the cb leaving your opponent in one hell of a situation. I'm new to this game but this actually looks like a great option.
 
Drew

Drew

Got a little dog in you?
Silver Member
Steve Lipsky said:
Drew,

Do you mean something like this?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AQlx4BDVt3...YOyE4YbIS3YNvq3YNvq3kCCC4kMuN4kbJH4kCpq4kChq@
Click to expand...

Sorry I'm not very proficient with the cuetable.com stuff. That's pretty close to what I meant. I'd much rather be on the other side of the 4 since it looks like the 4 goes into the corner and/or the danger of pushing the 4 into a position where it definitely goes into the corner. With the 10 so easy to pocket and use as a breakout, I'd be very cautious about giving up any balls.

BTW: is there a crash course or something I can take to master cuetable.com???
 
poolplayer2093

poolplayer2093

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd try to bank the 5 and stay bellow the 4 so you could use that as a break ball. and use the 1 as an insurance ball (if you don't get stuck behind a ball) i'm still new to 14.1 but i'm trying
 
Gerry

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well "thekiss" I'll say this about newbys learning the game. Instead of them playing standard 14.1 maybe tell them to play total offense 14.1. What I mean is NO SAFETIES. You can make up your own rules, but the basic thing is you must go for some type of shot or take a maybe a 5 ball penalty. This will teach them to RUN BALLS the basis for 14.1. It's just a more fun way to learn, and IMO safety theory is MUCH easier to learn then how to run big numbers.

Later after new guys can learn to run a few racks, THEN the defense game comes into play more. I'm of the thinking that you can never get loose and run out playing safe too much, and YES I know how important it is not to give up shots, but were talking how to teach new players.....not safety theory IMO.

I know my last post was nasty, but hey we all have crappy days, that was one of mine....sorry

Gerry
 
Drew

Drew

Got a little dog in you?
Silver Member
poolplayer2093 said:
I'd try to bank the 5 and stay bellow the 4 so you could use that as a break ball. and use the 1 as an insurance ball (if you don't get stuck behind a ball) i'm still new to 14.1 but i'm trying
Click to expand...

I guess if you are absolutely 100% sure that you will make that bank, then by all means, shoot it. Unfortunately I'm not that good, and the last thing I want to do is miss the bank leaving a beautiful shot on the 4. Might as well sit down because that rack is done.
 
poolplayer2093

poolplayer2093

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Drew said:
I guess if you are absolutely 100% sure that you will make that bank, then by all means, shoot it. Unfortunately I'm not that good, and the last thing I want to do is miss the bank leaving a beautiful shot on the 4. Might as well sit down because that rack is done.
Click to expand...


i'm not great player either but you gotta risk something to get the reward. i like to play agressive, i think it's just the way i am. i heard it on an accu stats tape one time "fortune favors the bold"


ps i lose a lot
 
Steve Lipsky

Steve Lipsky

On quest for perfect 14.1
Silver Member
The problem is that we started combining diagrams... nobody knows to which layout we are referring anymore, lol.

In the original diagram, not cutting the 5 in the corner is outrageously wrong (unless that 6 really can't miss off the 10, in which case that shot might be better). Then someone said, "well, what if the 5 were not where it was shown, but a couple inches out (making the 5 almost impossible)?" Since then there have been some replies that I think are referencing that, but I can't quite tell.

This thread has gotten a tad confusing ;)

- Steve
 
supergreenman

supergreenman

truly addicted
Silver Member
deleted......... suffice to say, it's possible to show someone the the stars but not teach them to dream of the stars.
 
Last edited:
Drew

Drew

Got a little dog in you?
Silver Member
Steve Lipsky said:
The problem is that we started combining diagrams... nobody knows to which layout we are referring anymore, lol.

In the original diagram, not cutting the 5 in the corner is outrageously wrong (unless that 6 really can't miss off the 10, in which case that shot might be better). Then someone said, "well, what if the 5 were not where it was shown, but a couple inches out (making the 5 almost impossible)?" Since then there have been some replies that I think are referencing that, but I can't quite tell.

This thread has gotten a tad confusing ;)

- Steve
Click to expand...

Sorry. In the original diagram, you should definitely cut the 5. I don't like the 6 because the 5 is too close to that corner and you may end up having to shoot either a combo or a long shot on the 10. With the 1 and 15 on the other end of the table, you should have no problem after shooting the 5. I just wanted to point out that should the 5 be in a position where you couldn't make it, you might want to shoot the safe. I wouldn't even consider banking the 5 because it's such a low percentage shot. In straight pool I tend to only play the 80% or higher balls.
 
Wink

Wink

14.1 Wannabe
Silver Member
I gotta tell ya, old threads like this are VERY valuable.

I just got motivated to try to get my 14.1 game going well again. It has been years since I have played any decent players, and I have been limited to 8-ball 95% of the time, or LONG 9-ball games. Anyhow, I have been playing 2-3 hours of straight practice for the past few days.

I can run an open rack, get a few secondary breaks, and even leave a good break ball most of the time. I need to work more on my Set-up ball, so that I can get better CB position for the Break Ball. I was thinking Key Ball, Break Ball.. adding the Set Up Ball should help significantly.

Years ago, I could transition and run a few racks. At the moment, it seems all I can do is run a rack... and that is it.

There are some GREAT tips and wisdom in this thread! I greatly appreciate to the info, and practice tips. I also LOVE the idea of practicing with a friend with NO SAFETIES. That really puts the pressure on us to run, and learn how to put rack transitions together.

Playing 8-6 mentality isn't gonna help any of us improve our games.

Thanks for all the great input that many of you put into this thread. I look forward to learning more as I read more of the site.
 
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