"Dead" Halfball Bank Shots

BC21

BC21

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Here are some neat banks for one pocket players, or any game really. Often, when shooting from the kitchen, one of these frozen rail banks will present itself. Each of this shots require a halfball hit/aim, making them pretty handy to know, especially with a ball in hand behind the head string.

With the cb anywhere along the center line between cb and ob, as shown with these four different shots, it's a dead halfball bank shot to the corner. Works great as long as the cb is at least a foot or more away from the ob. Shoot them one at time. If you line them all up as shown the adjacent ball will probably be in the way since they are froze to the rail at only quarter diamond intervals.

This is on my Diamond table, but should work on any table. Could be a little off depending on your specific table, but still workable.

picture.php
 
S

straightline

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Glad you posted that. I've always tried to shoot them as separate entities. I remember overhearing the right angle part from many decades ago but never figured the trick. Never thought to ask those guys either. It was kinda advanced for me at the time I guess.

The only half ball bank I know is the one where the ball is frozen on the long rail just outside of the pocket. Cue ball and object ball line up parallel to the short rail. It's like an impossible straight back the short way. You gotta smack this one but the ball sails right back atchya.
 
BC21

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straightline said:
Glad you posted that. I've always tried to shoot them as separate entities. I remember overhearing the right angle part from many decades ago but never figured the trick. Never thought to ask those guys either. It was kinda advanced for me at the time I guess.

The only half ball bank I know is the one where the ball is frozen on the long rail just outside of the pocket. Cue ball and object ball line up parallel to the short rail. It's like an impossible straight back the short way. You gotta smack this one but the ball sails right back atchya.
Click to expand...

Yep. That frozen rail bank trick works like this.... When cb and ob are aligned parallel with the end rail (we'll call this "zero offset", where the ob is froze to the 1st diamond and the cb to ob line leads to the 1st diamond directlyin front of you), a halfball hit brings the ob one diamond deeper, which hits the pocket, as you described. Now if you move the ob up so it's 2 diamonds from the end rail, then offset the cb to ob center line by 1 diamond (the line should now extend from the ob to the 3rd diamond on the rail directly in front of you), this is also a halfball shot. If the ob were 3 diamonds up table, the offset should be 2 diamonds (centerline between balls leading to the 5th diamond in front of you, or the 1st one passed the side pocket) in order to be a halfball shot. And so on....
 
One Pocket John

One Pocket John

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BC21 said:
Here are some neat banks for one pocket players, or any game really. Often, when shooting from the kitchen, one of these frozen rail banks will present itself. Each of this shots require a halfball hit/aim, making them pretty handy to know, especially with a ball in hand behind the head string.

With the cb anywhere along the center line between cb and ob, as shown with these four different shots, it's a dead halfball bank shot to the corner. Works great as long as the cb is at least a foot or more away from the ob. Shoot them one at time. If you line them all up as shown the adjacent ball will probably be in the way since they are froze to the rail at only quarter diamond intervals.

This is on my Diamond table, but should work on any table. Could be a little off depending on your specific table, but still workable.

picture.php
Click to expand...

Thanks Brian. Good to know.

Have a good day and stay safe. :)

John
 
BC21

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Here are some other fractional aim lines. This method can be used on any frozen rail shot. Every half diamond offset between cb and ob center line and the "parallel" line is a 1/8 fractional aim difference.

Example: Freeze an ob at the 1st diamond from the end rail. The parallel line is straight back to the 1st diamond on the opposite rail. This a halfball shot line, meaning if you place the cb on this line, and then aim for a halfball hit, you'll bank the ball back toward you into the corner pocket. From this angle you can't baby the shot or the cb stays in the way and interferes with the ob banking. Now move the cb toward the end rail, putting it on a line that leads from center cb to half a diamond from the tatget pocket. This would be "offset" by half a diamond from the halfball parallel line first mentioned. Since the line is mow half a diamond off from the parallel halfball line, the aim point needed is 1/8 of a ball thinner than a haldball aim, so it's a 3/8 ball shot.

Example 2: Freeze an ob at the 2nd diamond now. If the cb were lined up straight on with it. The center line of the balls should be parallel to the end rail, going straight through the footspot (or headspot if you're at the head end). From this line it's a quarter ball (1/4) shot. If you move the cb so that it's now offset by 1 full diamond farther up table (centerline between balls now leads to the 3rd diamond on the rail in front of you), it's a halfball shot. The cb is offset two half diamonds, so the aim ppont will be 2/8''s thicker than a quarter ball shot, each half diamond being a 1/8 aim difference. This puts the shot on a halfball line. If we had only moved the cb to have it offset by half a diamond, our aim point would've been 3/8.

Here is an example to illustrate the method. This ob is on the 3rd diamond....

picture.php
 
Dan White

Dan White

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Fantastic, Brian! I've always hit banks just by feel but I've never been super confident in them. This is a great reference point.

What if the ob is not frozen? If the ob is maybe 1/4" from the rail will this still work? Maybe for some angles but not others? Have to try it out.
 
B

bbb

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Brian
If we number the diamonds from the end rail we’re trying to make the ball one to eight to the other end rail
you have the object ball at three
Wouldnt a full hit be from 6 (since the ball is froze you probably need to go from 6 1/4 or 6 1/2)

you show it at 7 1/2
:confused:
I will try out yout diagram on a table
My comment above is theoretical
 
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Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

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bbb said:
Brian
If we number the diamonds from the end rail we’re trying to make the ball one to eight to the other end rail
you have the object ball at three
Wouldnt a full hit be from 6 (since the ball is froze you probably need to go from 6 1/4 or 6 1/2)

you show it at 7 1/2
:confused:
I will try out yout diagram on a table
My comment above is theoretical
Click to expand...
With the OB against (or even near) the long rail the bank angle shortens considerable because of rail friction and a non-rolling OB.

Here's an explanation from Dr. Dave about fast-speed banks (which act like banks with the OB on or near the rail):

https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/fast-system/

pj
chgo
 
BC21

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bbb said:
Brian
If we number the diamonds from the end rail we’re trying to make the ball one to eight to the other end rail
you have the object ball at three
Wouldnt a full hit be from 6 (since the ball is froze you probably need to go from 6 1/4 or 6 1/2)

you show it at 7 1/2
:confused:
I will try out yout diagram on a table
My comment above is theoretical
Click to expand...

I show it at 7. My sketches aren't the greatest, but I plan on being getting on board with using virtual pool from now on. It's just quick and easy to grab pencil and pad because it's alway handy. But I find 7 to 3 to be a straight (full ball hit) bank shot.
 
BC21

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Dan White said:
Fantastic, Brian! I've always hit banks just by feel but I've never been super confident in them. This is a great reference point.

What if the ob is not frozen? If the ob is maybe 1/4" from the rail will this still work? Maybe for some angles but not others? Have to try it out.
Click to expand...

For some angles...yes. It works as long as the ob is close enough to slide into the rail instead of roll.
 
B

bbb

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B

bbb

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BC21 said:
I show it at 7. My sketches aren't the greatest, but I plan on being getting on board with using virtual pool from now on. It's just quick and easy to grab pencil and pad because it's alway handy. But I find 7 to 3 to be a straight (full ball hit) bank shot.
Click to expand...

it works.at 7 ...:thumbup:
of course it would if you said so....:smile:
i think the fact that diamonds play alittle short helps
 
BC21

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bbb said:
it works.at 7 ...:thumbup:
of course it would if you said so....:smile:
i think the fact that diamonds play alittle short helps
Click to expand...

Probably so. Plus speed plays a crucial roll. Shoot them softer and watch them roll longer, shoot them firm and watch them land short. With practice you you get pretty good at manipulating the shots as needed.
 
B

bbb

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BC21 said:
Here are some neat banks for one pocket players, or any game really. Often, when shooting from the kitchen, one of these frozen rail banks will present itself. Each of this shots require a halfball hit/aim, making them pretty handy to know, especially with a ball in hand behind the head string.

With the cb anywhere along the center line between cb and ob, as shown with these four different shots, it's a dead halfball bank shot to the corner. Works great as long as the cb is at least a foot or more away from the ob. Shoot them one at time. If you line them all up as shown the adjacent ball will probably be in the way since they are froze to the rail at only quarter diamond intervals.

This is on my Diamond table, but should work on any table. Could be a little off depending on your specific table, but still workable.

picture.php
Click to expand...
is your first ball coming from the 1/4 diamond on the short rail?
and if the ball was at diamond 6 (one closer to the end rail where you are shooting from} you would shoot from 1 1/4 from the right corner...yes?
your ball movement is alittle more than a ball
because from diamond to diamond is close to 6 balls and you would be showing 5 balls in your diagram
sorry to be alittle picky
but i love these number systems
 
BC21

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bbb said:
is your first ball coming from the 1/4 diamond on the short rail?
and if the ball was at diamond 6 (one closer to the end rail where you are shooting from} you would shoot from 1 1/4 from the right corner...yes?
your ball movement is alittle more than a ball
because from diamond to diamond is close to 6 balls and you would be showing 5 balls in your diagram
sorry to be alittle picky
but i love these number systems
Click to expand...

Yes. A ball on 6 I'd shoot from 1.25. A ball on 7, however, goes from 2.75 diamonds (or 1.25 from the corner where the ob is at).

The ball sitting at the 5th diamond I had originally figured the halfball ball line was closer to the center of that corner pocket instead a quarter diamond over on the end rail. It was probably just a speed difference. It'll work from either line with the right speed.

That's the tricky part about banking systems or "dead" shots..... inconsistent speed or spin can cause inconsistent results.
 
B

bbb

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this diagram sucks i wish i could have asked patrick to make it for me
but this is very interesting to me
in freddys book the object ball at diamond 5 if the cue ball is at the rail nose of 1.6 a full hit makes the bank
if you extend the line from the rail nose on a staight line ob/cb the butt of the cue passes close to 1.25 (not exactly but close) which is one diamond or 2 half diamonds
for the short rail it seems to me each half diamond = 1/4 hit not 1/8
brian if you have time maybe you could play with that
by the way i called this pic in my computer"freddy and brian collide"...:)
freddy and brian collide.png
 
BC21

BC21

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bbb said:
this diagram sucks i wish i could have asked patrick to make it for me
but this is very interesting to me
in freddys book the object ball at diamond 5 if the cue ball is at the rail nose of 1.6 a full hit makes the bank
if you extend the line from the rail nose on a staight line ob/cb the butt of the cue passes close to 1.25 (not exactly but close) which is one diamond or 2 half diamonds
for the short rail it seems to me each half diamond = 1/4 hit not 1/8
brian if you have time maybe you could play with that
by the way i called this pic in my computer"freddy and brian collide"...:)
Click to expand...

I've already messed around with it. Maybe it's a Diamond table/cushion thing, but the dead straight bank from 5 is shot from the middle diamond on the end rail. Using center ball or touch lower, like stop shot speed. Move the cb over one diamond toward the right corner, centerline of balls leading there, and it's a 3/4 ball shot. Move it over another diamond (corner pocket), it's a 1/2 ball shot.

Could it just be for Diamond tables? Hmmmmm
 
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S

straightline

AzB Silver Member
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BC21 said:
Yep. That frozen rail bank trick works like this.... When cb and ob are aligned parallel with the end rail (we'll call this "zero offset", where the ob is froze to the 1st diamond and the cb to ob line leads to the 1st diamond directlyin front of you), a halfball hit brings the ob one diamond deeper, which hits the pocket, as you described. Now if you move the ob up so it's 2 diamonds from the end rail, then offset the cb to ob center line by 1 diamond (the line should now extend from the ob to the 3rd diamond on the rail directly in front of you), this is also a halfball shot. If the ob were 3 diamonds up table, the offset should be 2 diamonds (centerline between balls leading to the 5th diamond in front of you, or the 1st one passed the side pocket) in order to be a halfball shot. And so on....
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight and the Rosetta Stone ;) I can see I'm goin off on table time when the siege is over. :grin-square:
 
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