Just some standard 'Lockdown' Shot Drills

BC21

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I like the idea of memorizing references (I do it with these same banks/kicks), but I must be missing something here. Seems like hitting all these balls at the same bank angle should send them on parallel paths...?

pj
chgo

View attachment 545664

These lines are not parallel with each other. There's about half a degree change in angle for each line. In other words, the approach angle from the cushion to the pocket changes a little (widens out) with each shot as you move the ob toward the head string.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
These lines are not parallel with each other. There's about half a degree change in angle for each line. In other words, the approach angle from the cushion to the pocket changes a little (widens out) with each shot as you move the ob toward the head string.
I see a slight angle change now that I look more closely - but it looks like the angles get steeper, not wider, as the OB moves toward the head string..?

pj
chgo
 
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BC21

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I see a slight angle change now that I look more closely - but it looks like the angles get steeper, not wider, as the OB moves toward the head string..?

pj
chgo

The angle from the ob coming off the cushion and heading to the pocket gets wider. Here's an exaggerated sketch that illustrates it. I used the far corner pocket as the stationary reference instead of a designated bank pocket, but notice the angle increase. It would be the same effect if I used a line to the far right bottom pocket instead of that long rail.

picture.php
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
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The angle from the ob coming off the cushion and heading to the pocket gets wider. Here's an exaggerated sketch that illustrates it. I used the far corner pocket as the stationary reference instead of a designated bank pocket, but notice the angle increase. It would be the same effect if I used a line to the far right bottom pocket instead of that long rail.
I don't think it's the same as you move the starting point down the end rail (toward the bottom of your pic).

Here's a careful to-scale pic using your original end rail starting points and long rail OB placements. The angles clearly get steeper (by about 1/2 degree each step) as the OBs move toward the head string.

Sorry to nitpick. I believe you when you say there's a workable system there - your drawing just doesn't seem to illustrate it (yet).

pj
chgo

P.S. In your first drawing (and this one) the CB paths go (roughly) from the closest diamond on the end rail to diamond 2.25 on the long rail - but in your second drawing they go from the closest diamond on the end rail to diamond 3 on the long rail. That difference in general orientation seems to make the difference.

longrail banks.jpg
 
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BC21

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I don't think it's the same as you move the starting point down the end rail (toward the bottom of your pic).

Here's a careful to-scale pic using your original end rail starting points and long rail OB placements. The angles clearly get steeper (by about 1/2 degree each step) as the OBs move toward the head string.

Sorry to nitpick. I believe you when you say there's a workable system there - your drawing just doesn't seem to illustrate it (yet).

pj
chgo

View attachment 545742

Lol....as usual, we are not looking or referencing the same thing. :eek:

But it really doesn't matter. I was using a mathematical ratio of 0.67, meaning that when an ob is froze to the rail X amount of diamonds from the end rail where the target pocket is for the bank shot, the cb to ob offset line is X * 0.67 to make it a halfball shot. This works for all frozen rail banks after about the 2nd diamond up. I know that sounds confusing. I did the numbers while at work, then went home to test it out, and found it very accurate.

Of course speed is a variable. For instance, the actual line for a halfball hit to bank an ob 5 diamonds deeper down table would be 5 * 0.67, which is 3.35, or basically 3 and 1/3 diamonds. So starting on the rail straight across from the ob, and exactly at the same diamond distance, count 3 and 1/3 diamonds up the table toward the nearest corner pocket, actual 1/3 passed that pocket. Sight a line from here to the ob and that's the halfball line. It's really directly over center pocket, but it's not so speed sensitive if you go a little wider, which is why I showed it wider than that in my quick illustration.

So you're right, there is a very workable system system there, but it doesn't look as accurate on paper. But look at that ol halfball shot where the ob is froze one diamond up from the corner, and the cb is lined straight up with it so that the centerline between the balls is parallel to the end rail. That shot doesn't look right, but it works. Or the shot where the ob is froze to the cushion about an inch or so from the side pocket, on the head end of the table, and the cb is straight on with it (parallel to end rails). Hit that shot just a touch aiming just a touch off a full hit and you'll double kiss it diagonally into the corner pocket on the foot side of the table. That one doesn't look right either, but it works.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
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Lol....as usual, we are not looking or referencing the same thing. :eek:

But it really doesn't matter. I was using a mathematical ratio of 0.67, meaning that when an ob is froze to the rail X amount of diamonds from the end rail where the target pocket is for the bank shot, the cb to ob offset line is X * 0.67 to make it a halfball shot. This works for all frozen rail banks after about the 2nd diamond up. I know that sounds confusing. I did the numbers while at work, then went home to test it out, and found it very accurate.

Of course speed is a variable. For instance, the actual line for a halfball hit to bank an ob 5 diamonds deeper down table would be 5 * 0.67, which is 3.35, or basically 3 and 1/3 diamonds. So starting on the rail straight across from the ob, and exactly at the same diamond distance, count 3 and 1/3 diamonds up the table toward the nearest corner pocket, actual 1/3 passed that pocket. Sight a line from here to the ob and that's the halfball line. It's really directly over center pocket, but it's not so speed sensitive if you go a little wider, which is why I showed it wider than that in my quick illustration.

So you're right, there is a very workable system system there, but it doesn't look as accurate on paper. But look at that ol halfball shot where the ob is froze one diamond up from the corner, and the cb is lined straight up with it so that the centerline between the balls is parallel to the end rail. That shot doesn't look right, but it works. Or the shot where the ob is froze to the cushion about an inch or so from the side pocket, on the head end of the table, and the cb is straight on with it (parallel to end rails). Hit that shot just a touch aiming just a touch off a full hit and you'll double kiss it diagonally into the corner pocket on the foot side of the table. That one doesn't look right either, but it works.
i am confused
using the formula when the object ball is one diamond from the foot rail
you should be at 0.67 diamonds above it not across from it
with the object ball 2 diamonds up you had a diagram with the cue ball at 1 diamond above it not 1.34 diamonds
what am i not understanding?
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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i am confused
using the formula when the object ball is one diamond from the foot rail
you should be at 0.67 diamonds above it not across from it
with the object ball 2 diamonds up you had a diagram with the cue ball at 1 diamond above it not 1.34 diamonds
what am i not understanding?

I works "after about the 2nd diamond". At the 2nd diamond the ratio 0.5.
 

Bob Jewett

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... Also these aren't exactly memorized references. There is a very predictable system to frozen rail banks all along the cushion. ...
One such system is the 70% mirror system. Dr. Dave has a slightly different system.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Lol....as usual, we are not looking or referencing the same thing. :eek:

But it really doesn't matter. I was using a mathematical ratio of 0.67, meaning that when an ob is froze to the rail X amount of diamonds from the end rail where the target pocket is for the bank shot, the cb to ob offset line is X * 0.67 to make it a halfball shot. This works for all frozen rail banks after about the 2nd diamond up. I know that sounds confusing. I did the numbers while at work, then went home to test it out, and found it very accurate.

Of course speed is a variable. For instance, the actual line for a halfball hit to bank an ob 5 diamonds deeper down table would be 5 * 0.67, which is 3.35, or basically 3 and 1/3 diamonds. So starting on the rail straight across from the ob, and exactly at the same diamond distance, count 3 and 1/3 diamonds up the table toward the nearest corner pocket, actual 1/3 passed that pocket. Sight a line from here to the ob and that's the halfball line. It's really directly over center pocket, but it's not so speed sensitive if you go a little wider, which is why I showed it wider than that in my quick illustration.

So you're right, there is a very workable system system there, but it doesn't look as accurate on paper. But look at that ol halfball shot where the ob is froze one diamond up from the corner, and the cb is lined straight up with it so that the centerline between the balls is parallel to the end rail. That shot doesn't look right, but it works. Or the shot where the ob is froze to the cushion about an inch or so from the side pocket, on the head end of the table, and the cb is straight on with it (parallel to end rails). Hit that shot just a touch aiming just a touch off a full hit and you'll double kiss it diagonally into the corner pocket on the foot side of the table. That one doesn't look right either, but it works.
Just curious...

A similar system must exist (or could be devised) for full ball hits instead of half ball hits - and I suspect, not relying on the variable of half ball cut friction, it could be more reliable. Why use this one if that's true?

pj <- not criticizing; just wondering
chgo
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Just curious...

A similar system must exist (or could be devised) for full ball hits instead of half ball hits - and I suspect, not relying on the variable of half ball cut friction, it could be more reliable. Why use this one if that's true?

pj <- not criticizing; just wondering
chgo

I'm develop a complete banking method for fractional aiming. This is just a portion of it, the frozen rail bank shot. And I'm not focusing on half ball hits or straight banks, or how to take ball in hand and set up a dead bank using the 1/3 more or whatever method. I'm more focused on the providing players with a fractional solution for banks, regardless of where the cb is located.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I'm develop a complete banking method for fractional aiming. This is just a portion of it, the frozen rail bank shot. And I'm not focusing on half ball hits or straight banks, or how to take ball in hand and set up a dead bank using the 1/3 more or whatever method. I'm more focused on the providing players with a fractional solution for banks, regardless of where the cb is located.
Sounds cool. Hope to see it.

pj
chgo
 
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