How is this for mentality of some pool players

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A local place wants to put on a decently big added money event (over $1,000 added). They set the limit to under 580 Fargo since they wanted to put in an event for lower ranked players to win some decent money at a tournament. Their main player base in leagues and in general is C level, if you are a B you are a top player there.

I just had someone tell me that there are A and higher players that are entering Fargo ranked tournaments and dumping matches to lower players to drop their official rating so they can get into the event.

Sick.
 
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trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
A local place wants to put on a decently big added money event (over $1,000 added). They set the limit to under 580 Fargo since they wanted to put in an event for lower ranked players to win some decent money at a tournament.

I just had someone tell me that there are A and higher players that are entering Fargo ranked tournaments and dumping matches to lower players to drop their official rating so they can get into the event.

Sick.

And this surprises you how? :)

Trent from Toledo
 
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hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And this surprises you how? :)

Trent from Toledo

I guess it is not so much a surprise as wonder how shitty some people are.

If/when this thing happens, I'm getting in touch with Mike Page to grab some historical data on players to see how their ratings slid and when. So if any of those players happen to be on the forums, don't waste your time, if you are a 600ish or higher player now, you are not getting in then even if you dump your way to a 300.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If it is worth winning, somebody's gonna find it worth cheating.

Make payouts low and pocket the rest. That should resolve any concerns about the event.
 

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
I know I am capable of high level shots, but lack the lack experience to play good patterns or run outs.

Plus I just play league for meeting people, even if it means playing my opponent on their level. Or completely dumping to a stronger player.

In my current job people act like they could care less, especially when my job is to provide a service for them. Its like getting doctor's advice and the patient doesn't follow it.

Most people are really into winning, some are good company and a few are people I want to be around.

It might seem like they are high level, but its like when a middle rank player is dominating a match then commits a amateur mistake.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
A local place wants to put on a decently big added money event (over $1,000 added). They set the limit to under 580 Fargo since they wanted to put in an event for lower ranked players to win some decent money at a tournament. Their main player base in leagues and in general is C level, if you are a B you are a top player there.

I just had someone tell me that there are A and higher players that are entering Fargo ranked tournaments and dumping matches to lower players to drop their official rating so they can get into the event.

Sick.

Have them lock in everybody's Fargo rate now and that's it, you cannot come down from where you're at. No outsiders.
Jason
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Have them lock in everybody's Fargo rate now and that's it, you cannot come down from where you're at. No outsiders.
Jason

They are doing it based on qualifier events over a bunch of weeks so it is still months away, we don't know who will be there to play in it yet.

However I am pretty sure Mr Page has historical data sitting in the Fargo database that I will certainly be checking if he can help us with this. I will talk to the owner of the pool hall and he can give the call what the cut off will be. Likely if you are 600 today, and a 580 then, chances are you will not be allowed in or even be allowed to play in the qualifier so there is no *****ing about "but I played in the qualifier and gave you my money".

Personally I would not have even thought that this would be an issue till my friend gave me a heads up about it.

I would tell him "no starter ratings unless we all know the player" and if their real rating seems off, it will get adjusted manually. Not a lot of players in this pool hall would have an established Fargo rating, they mostly play APA or TAP leagues and not a lot of outside tournaments where they would be reporting to Fargo.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
They are doing it based on qualifier events over a bunch of weeks so it is still months away, we don't know who will be there to play in it yet.

However I am pretty sure Mr Page has historical data sitting in the Fargo database that I will certainly be checking if he can help us with this. I will talk to the owner of the pool hall and he can give the call what the cut off will be. Likely if you are 600 today, and a 580 then, chances are you will not be allowed in or even be allowed to play in the qualifier so there is no *****ing about "but I played in the qualifier and gave you my money".

Personally I would not have even thought that this would be an issue till my friend gave me a heads up about it.

I would tell him "no starter ratings unless we all know the player" and if their real rating seems off, it will get adjusted manually. Not a lot of players in this pool hall would have an established Fargo rating, they mostly play APA or TAP leagues and not a lot of outside tournaments where they would be reporting to Fargo.

Sounds like you have the answer with the other league ratings. C player and below.

Good luck, this will for sure be a thankless task, and will probably cost the place players to boot.

That's just the way the pool world is.
Jason
 

hitman22

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some have no character or integrity and if you have no conscience your good to go pilgrim. ...
 

Quesports

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nothing is out of bounds these days. I knew a good player that drove to another state and entered a local event under a different name. Fortunately he was ousted and tossed from the event. That is only one of the stories about his behavior. Major POS...
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Nothing is out of bounds these days. I knew a good player that drove to another state and entered a local event under a different name. Fortunately he was ousted and tossed from the event. That is only one of the stories about his behavior. Major POS...

Lol. When I lived in Phoenix some idiot used my name to play in a 7 and under tournament while I was out of town, my handicap was above a 7 to begin with and then they tried to ban ME for this idiot(he even spelled my last name incorrectly) trying to cheat. I had been gone like a month already for work and have no idea who it was. Took quite a bit of arguing with those idiots to keep playing.
What kind of moron tries to use a name that would automatically disqualify them?
Jason
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I know of a local female player who took Roberto Superman Gomez to a local pool hall and claimed he was her son. :grin:
She was caught and was 86'd.
 

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
I had a teammate who purposely dumped games so he could be lowered from an A to C+ in the league. In the tournaments, he was still ranked as A.

In conversation with the league director, he knew and wasn't too worried. Once you lay down, sometimes you forget how to play. :)

In hindsight, I agree with his assessment. My teammate would brag playing a local shortstop even up for money, but somehow always lose hill-hill. We had a cakewalk match, he lost to a D+. I quipped, their sandbagger was better than ours.
 

Ron Padilla

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I suppose if I went to fargo I could figure out what a 580 is but would you guys mind telling me what level that is and and the various levels equate to. All I play in is an APA here, and I thought that APA could if they wanted to could report to fargo is that correct or not?
Thanks
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
I suppose if I went to fargo I could figure out what a 580 is but would you guys mind telling me what level that is and and the various levels equate to. All I play in is an APA here, and I thought that APA could if they wanted to could report to fargo is that correct or not?
Thanks

These links will tell you how the APA and FargoRate ratings roughly correlate to each other.

https://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/ratings.html#Fargo

https://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/ratings.html#APA

Check the rest of that same page for more info about how it compares to many other ratings systems including the old standby A through D rating system.
 
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Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
All I play in is an APA here, and I thought that APA could if they wanted to could report to fargo is that correct or not?
Thanks
I forgot to answer this part of your question but first it requires some background.

FargoRate is a player rating system. It can be and often is used to accurately handicap matches, tournaments, and leagues. They have a partnership with CSI (Cue Sports International) who owns the BCAPL and USAPL pool leagues. CSI exclusively uses FargoRate as it's rating system to determine what divisions people belong in (most often on the BCAPL pool league side especially at large tournament events such as Nationals), and they use it whenever they need to handicap matches such as for their handicapped USAPL pool league. APA is a competing league who has their own [far less accurate] player rating system, and they use their own rating system to handicap APA matches. Because they are competitors, it is in my opinion highly unlikely that the APA would ever cooperate in any way with FargoRate or CSI. It would be good for the game but it would be bad for their business so APA would likely never do it.

Aside from that, the APA match formats probably wouldn't provide useful and usable information to FargoRate anyway. Here's why. FargoRate assesses people's ratings based on how they do in head to head match ups against competitors. To understand why that is, you have to understand how FargoRate works. To heavily simplify, FargoRate doesn't go by who won or lost matches, but rather they go by what the final score was for each match in even match ups. As an example, if you are a low rated player, rated say like your typical average league player, and you play Shane Van Boening a race to 9 and lose by a score of 9-8, your rating is going to go up. It doesn't matter that you lost. What FargoRate looks at is that you didn't play like an average league player that match. You played like a great or pro level player for that match to get that score against Shane. And likewise, Shane's rating would likely drop some even though he won, because in that match his level of play was barely above the average league player because he barely beat an average league player. FargoRate cares what somebody wins or loses by (not who won or lost), or put another way, for any particular match it cares how you performed compared to how you were expected to perform as someone with your rating against someone with your opponent's rating. When you play better than your rating against the caliber of opponent you had, then you go up, and when you don't play as well as someone with your rating was supposed to against the caliber of opponent you had, you go down.

Since FargoRate assesses ratings only by looking at the final score in head to head match ups, handicapped matches of the APA would not be usable by FargoRate. That said, there can be very rare exceptions to that if the matches are handicapped in a very specific way such as how they are done in the USAPL pool league where the information is then still valuable and useful to FargoRate, but for the most part they can't make use of any handicapped match results anyway such as those that would come from the APA.
 
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