Memo to BCA: Pat Fleming Belongs in Hall of Fame

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
As so many have suggested Accu-stats videos tend to make for better viewing than televised pool, an assertion that is, at very least, reasonable, I thought it a good time to, once again, take up the cause of Pat Fleming being deserving of election to the BCA Hall of Fame.

I wonder how many of you know the real story of Accu-stats. When Pat put together his Accu-stats venture in the mid-1980’s, video recordings had nothing to do with his plans. Pat, with whom I practiced occasionally back then, asked me if I’d like to invest in Accu-stats, and explained the venture to me. He had already developed a model, he told me, for measuring a player’s performance, which we now know as the Accu-stats performance percentages, and his plans involved no more than calculating professional player performance stats and selling those stats to the various professional pool organizations. The venture didn’t seem particularly exciting to me, and I opted not to invest.

A couple of years later, Pat, like other good businessmen, identified an opportunity to expand his business. He saw a market for recording and selling video tapes of professional matches. Well, we all know the rest of the story. Pat, through Accu-stats has made an enormous contribution to the game of pool. Few of us are lucky enough to have had the opportunity to learn by watching Willie Mosconi, Irving Crane, Luther Lassiter, Jimmy Caras, or Eddie Taylor, but, mostly thanks to Pat’s vision, our generation and future generations will have the opportunity to learn from Mike Sigel, Efren Reyes, Buddy Hall, Johnny Archer, and so many others worth watching.

Pat is a visionary who has made a lasting contribution to the game, a far greater contribution than some who have already been inducted have made. When will the BCA Hall of Fame come calling? It’s Pat’s turn.
 

Williebetmore

Member, .25% Club
Silver Member
SJM,
Absolutely correct. I watch and study Accu-Stats tapes for several hours every Tuesday night, and I am always finding something new to work on, no matter how many times I view a tape.
 

Kerry Impson

Former player
Silver Member
I second....(oops, Williebetmore beat me to it) :).....third the motion! Pat is long overdue for a berth in the BCA Hall of Fame. Maybe sjm can submit an email petition to the BCA on Pat's behalf - sort of like those annoying chain-emails we get, only this time for pool, and we can all add our names!!
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
sjm said:
...
Pat is a visionary who has made a lasting contribution to the game, a far greater contribution than some who have already been inducted have made. When will the BCA Hall of Fame come calling? It’s Pat’s turn.
This may all be true, but are you willing to write the nomination? It's not up to the Hall of Fame Committee to beat the bushes for suggestions. Ask Mike Shamos if you need to know the submission requirements. (Committees under http://www.bca-pool.com/aboutus/ )
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
This may all be true, but are you willing to write the nomination? It's not up to the Hall of Fame Committee to beat the bushes for suggestions. Ask Mike Shamos if you need to know the submission requirements. (Committees under http://www.bca-pool.com/aboutus/ )

Bob, during 2003 BCAHOF nominations, I wrote to Steve Ducoff:

I think Pat Fleming deserves BCA Hall of Fame consideration for meritorious service to the sport of billiards. As the founder of Accu-stats, Pat's efforts have enabled countless fans of the game to enjoy competitions they were unable to attend and have also allowed teachers and students of the game to study and learn from many of the great matches of the last twenty years. Pat was a true visionary. Though we'll never get to see much footage of Greenleaf, Hoppe, Mosconi, Crane or Ponzi, Pat Fleming has seen to it that this and future generations will get to see and learn from footage of Reyes, Strickland, Bustamante, Archer and Hall, an important contribution to the study and appreciation of the game of pool.

Ducoff replied that he had sent my note along to the Hall of fame nominating committee. Obviously, Pat was not nominated.

My intent in this thread is to substantiate the case for Pat, hoping that somebody who, unlike myself, actually interacts with the powers at the BCA, can take up the cause. Similarly, I hope that I'll induce somebody with far more time and clout than me to get involved and to take action.
 

Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
Pat is responsible for capturing the most detailed and thorough pool videos of the past 15+ years of pool. If one attempts to find video seeing Lassiter play, or a Rempe match in the 70's when he was argueably his strongest, or see McCready play in his prime, or witness Mizerak play when he was near godly at the game, it is then you relize what a godsend Pat Flemming is to our sport. Unlike us, the next generation of pool players will be able to compare the pro's of the past with their current top players, they will be able to see Efren Play, Sigel, Strickland, all the matches of Accusats have imortalized the past 15 years of pool and I just wish it had been done earlier, it is such a shame that us young un's must simply dream about how good Mosconi actually was, we can never see him play in his prime, we lost most of the older players and noone will ever know how well they really shot and what their style really was because there is very little to no footage. Pat Flemming is a godsend to pool, and losing Accustats and not having them film the big events and make the videos any more would be a HUGE loss to this sport.
 

Nomoney

Registered
Pat's reward should only be, the money he has made off pool. he has a monopoly on events. what do players get paid? what has been given back to the sport. the Hall of Fame, has been watered down some. next thing you know, Dawn Hopkins will be nominated. no wonder pro players, can't make a living. at this sport.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Nomoney said:
Pat's reward should only be, the money he has made off pool. he has a monopoly on events. what do players get paid? what has been given back to the sport. the Hall of Fame, has been watered down some. next thing you know, Dawn Hopkins will be nominated. no wonder pro players, can't make a living. at this sport.

What Pat has given back to the game is that in a period in which men's pool telecasts have been rather sparse, he has ensured us access to so many of the great matches of the period, providing both entertainment and chances to learn from the great players of the period.

With due respect to you, Nomoney, the argument that the money earned should be enough reward can just as easily be made about great players, and it would be just as weak.
 

Williebetmore

Member, .25% Club
Silver Member
Haven't I heard somewhere that the players involved receive a royalty from every one of their Accu-Stats videos sold???? I have always believed that they do. Anyone know?
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Williebetmore said:
Haven't I heard somewhere that the players involved receive a royalty from every one of their Accu-Stats videos sold???? I have always believed that they do. Anyone know?

Yes, they do. I think I've posted this before, but Sigel, for many years, has joked about how Zuglan makes money on sales of the big-selling video of their famous match during the 1992 US Open 14.1 championships in which Mike's participation consisted of just a lag and an opening break.
 
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yobagua

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a no brainer. I know many, myself included, whose interest in pool has been resurrected after viewing a quantity of Pat Flemings collection of tape. He not only allows us the fans in America but the world round to learn from great players. Pat was the first one to have an all Phillipino (Tagalog) tape. A first Balkline tape. Not just stoping at pocket billiards but 3 rail billiards as well. These are not big profit items. But because Pat thinks it should be included in Pools library of films.
Pat is also a man of integrity and does not rest on his laurels. He keeps on improving his technical aspects at great cost to him. Those of us in the west who love straight pool get to view the matches from the Maine Event and the US straight pool event in NY.
Enough said. This man deserves all the respect this industry can give.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
sjm said:
My intent in this thread is to substantiate the case for Pat, hoping that somebody who, unlike myself, actually interacts with the powers at the BCA, can take up the cause. Similarly, I hope that I'll induce somebody with far more time and clout than me to get involved and to take action.
Below is the list of members of the BCA HOF Nominating Committee. They are the people who need to be convinced as far as the nomination goes. There are no "powers at the BCA" for the nomination process. The voting on who will get in is by the BCA membership.

HALL OF FAME COMMITTEE
Mike Panozzo (chair)
Ron Blatt
Conrad Burkman
J.R. Calvert
Dan Dishaw
John Nusser
Mike Shamos
Tom Shaw
Stephen Ducoff (staff liaison)
 

Nomoney

Registered
how about espn, while we're at it. yeah that's the ticket. and don't forget mitch lawrence. he is married to a hall of famer. your making the HOF a joke already. come on, leave the HOF for just great players.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Nomoney said:
how about espn, while we're at it. yeah that's the ticket. and don't forget mitch lawrence. he is married to a hall of famer. your making the HOF a joke already. come on, leave the HOF for just great players.

I know where you're coming from, Nomoney, and I'd certainly be OK with a BCA Hall of Fame that restricted entry to players. Still, that's not how other sports do it. For example, both baseball and football have inducted broadcasters and journalists, evidencing their view that those on a sport's periphery make huge contributions. Baseball even inducted Abbot and Costello, just for their comedy routine that brought so much positive attention to the game.

Where you draw the line is difficult, but, in pool, the line was drawn long ago, and the meritorious servce to the game category does exist. I say, as long as that category does exist, Pat Fleming deserves entry.

Still, as I said, I do know where you are coming from, and what you say does have a lot of merit.
 

JDB

Idiot Savant
Silver Member
sjm said:
I know where you're coming from, Nomoney, and I'd certainly be OK with a BCA Hall of Fame that restricted entry to players. Still, that's not how other sports do it. For example, both baseball and football have inducted broadcasters and journalists, evidencing their view that those on a sport's periphery make huge contributions. Baseball even inducted Abbot and Costello, just for their comedy routine that brought so much positive attention to the game.

Where you draw the line is difficult, but, in pool, the line was drawn long ago, and the meritorious servce to the game category does exist. I say, as long as that category does exist, Pat Fleming deserves entry.

Still, as I said, I do know where you are coming from, and what you say does have a lot of merit.

Great reply SJM... I think you have made a great case for Pat and I agree 100%. As long as the category exists, Pat should be nominated for his contributions, as everyone else has for the same category.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
Below is the list of members of the BCA HOF Nominating Committee. They are the people who need to be convinced as far as the nomination goes. There are no "powers at the BCA" for the nomination process. The voting on who will get in is by the BCA membership.

HALL OF FAME COMMITTEE
Mike Panozzo (chair)
Ron Blatt
Conrad Burkman
J.R. Calvert
Dan Dishaw
John Nusser
Mike Shamos
Tom Shaw
Stephen Ducoff (staff liaison)

Thanks for the info, Bob. Actually, I can count five of these nine as friends, and I will likely see at least one of them when I go to the Women's Challenge of Champions this Thursday in Connecticut.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I'm back from Mohegan Sun and I did catch up with JR Calvert, whom I've Known for years and always liked.

As JR is on the BCA Hall of Fame committe, I asked him about Pat. He noted that the Hall of Fame committe concurs that PAt is deserving of entry, but that Pat himself has dissuaded them from moving in the direction of inducting him too soon.

I sure walked away from my chat with JR with a sense that Pat will be inducted into the BCA Hall of Fame somewhere down the road, and that's good enough for me.
 
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