Beat or Match Mosconi's 526 at the BCAPL Nationals Win Cash!

Ron F

Ron F
Silver Member
526 on a Diamond

They could probably take out an insurance policy and offer $1 million dollars. There's no way anyone will run 526 balls on a 9' Diamond Pro Am with professional cut pockets. I believe Bobby claims the world's highest run on that table with 309. So a 526 would be equivalent to running 15.5 racks more than the highest known run on that table in history. Make it $10 million.

Ron F
 

Winston846

Aspiring 14.1 Player
Silver Member
I agree. If there's a challenge to break Mosconi's record, then it should be on the identical table and conditions on which Mosconi did it.

Chamberlain's Diamond run is 311, which I think should be recognized as a world record in it's own right.
 

tksix

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My goal is 525!!! If I had the talent to run 526 I would stop at 525.

Mosconi's 526 is legendary and I would stop out of respect.

Like Barry Sanders retiring when he knew that one more season
of play he could break Walter Payton's all time rushing record.
Walter was his hero, so he left the record stand.

Don't get me wrong...... I want to see the best of the best put up high
run numbers. But me personally, I would stop short.


Mike
 

14-1StraightMan

High Run 127
Silver Member
Records

"Records are made to be broken". I do not care what kind of table it is. I don't see anyone one breaking Mosconi's record. That's one of the reasons in my opinion that he is the greatest player of all times.
In a "Old School" kind of way, I hope it never gets broken.
 

driven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Personally, I do believe the record will be broken. It is just a game of pool.
Right now, besides a handful of top players, there are probable half a dozen kids in China capable of doing it. We may never know because they might never pick up a pool stick. Someday someone will run a thousand.
steven
 

Steve Lipsky

On quest for perfect 14.1
Silver Member
Holly, thanks for a great idea and I'm really looking forward to competing in this challenge! I have no illusions I will break the record, or come close, but I'm looking forward to the tournament!

I do have one question that wasn't addressed - if someone were to break the record, who would own the rights to the video? $20,000 is a nice chunk of change but I would hope the player in question would legally own at least half the rights to the video as well. For that matter, if someone were to run 300 or 400 and not get the $20,000, that video would still be worth a fortune. Hoping the player would share in that opportunity.

Just curious for how this is going to be handled...

Thanks!

- Steve
 

Winston846

Aspiring 14.1 Player
Silver Member
"Records are made to be broken". I do not care what kind of table it is. I don't see anyone one breaking Mosconi's record. That's one of the reasons in my opinion that he is the greatest player of all times.
In a "Old School" kind of way, I hope it never gets broken.

I respectfully disagree. I think the equipment and conditions do matter. I don't think even Mosconi would have been able to run 526 on a pro-cut Diamond. There's certain shots you can play where you can cheat the pocket and get away with on a Brunswick but not a Diamond. Plus, at 4 7/8", Mosconi had a much larger margin for error.

I think it should be attempted on the same conditions Mosconi had. To me, that's only fair.
 

14-1StraightMan

High Run 127
Silver Member
526

I respectfully disagree. I think the equipment and conditions do matter. I don't think even Mosconi would have been able to run 526 on a pro-cut Diamond. There's certain shots you can play where you can cheat the pocket and get away with on a Brunswick but not a Diamond. Plus, at 4 7/8", Mosconi had a much larger margin for error.

I think it should be attempted on the same conditions Mosconi had. To me, that's only fair.

I agree with you. You are correct but I still can not see anyone breaking that record. Maybe, we will see some day. Pockets: one of the reasons why I perfer a Brunswick Gold Crown over a Diamond.

PS; "tksix" Thumbs Up...... If I was that gifted. I too would stop at 525
 

CarlB

Formerly AfghanBilliards
Silver Member
I respectfully disagree. I think the equipment and conditions do matter. I don't think even Mosconi would have been able to run 526 on a pro-cut Diamond. There's certain shots you can play where you can cheat the pocket and get away with on a Brunswick but not a Diamond. Plus, at 4 7/8", Mosconi had a much larger margin for error.

I think it should be attempted on the same conditions Mosconi had. To me, that's only fair.

So your saying same old school table felt, cues, balls, etc? I think that would be a little eccentric. The same way that every sport has evolved through time with equipment and techniques, pool does as well. Golf's longest drive contest doesn't say, "OK, in order to break the record, you have to use the same equipment they had, and the wind has to be the same speed and direction, etc." Its absurd to think that.

Myself I think that there are a few capable of beating it, and they should if they are capable. Babe Ruth's record was broken and he isn't thought of any less, even though the guys that beat it had a distinct advantage, better equipment, longer seasons, etc.

Man, I Love This Game!

Carl
 

Winston846

Aspiring 14.1 Player
Silver Member
So your saying same old school table felt, cues, balls, etc? I think that would be a little eccentric. The same way that every sport has evolved through time with equipment and techniques, pool does as well. Golf's longest drive contest doesn't say, "OK, in order to break the record, you have to use the same equipment they had, and the wind has to be the same speed and direction, etc." Its absurd to think that.

Myself I think that there are a few capable of beating it, and they should if they are capable. Babe Ruth's record was broken and he isn't thought of any less, even though the guys that beat it had a distinct advantage, better equipment, longer seasons, etc.

Man, I Love This Game!

Carl

It's not absurd to think that at all. Today's equipment is distinctly more difficult, and a table like Mosconi had can be set up quite easily. Brunswick Centennial balls are virtually unchanged and 80/20 napped cloth is still readily available. But cloth and balls aside, the main thing is the pocket width and cut. As long as those are the same as what Mosconi had, the balls and cloth aren't as important as they are not that far off from what Mosconi had anyway.

And as for the guys beating the home run record(s), you left out the most distinct advantage of all - steroids.
 

Ron F

Ron F
Silver Member
High Runs

This is an interestingly tough issue and one that highlights the vagueness of our sport and contributes to making life miserable for serious pool players and confusing to non-players. When the 100 yard dash changed to 100 meters; the 100 yard records were retired, never to be broken again. So what do we have:

3.5 x 7 tables
4 x 8 tables
4.5 x 9 tables
5 x 10 tables
Mali 80/20 cloth
Simonis cloth
Brunswick tables
Diamond tables
4-1/2” pockets
4-3/4” pockets
4-7/8” pockets
5” pockets

Should each set of variables have its own high run record? With just the 12 named variables above, that’d be 144 different high run records. That’s a bit much. I’d say the high run on each of the table sizes should be recognized and that’s it. The other variables are all situational. Mosconi didn’t set out to set the record on a 4 x 8 with 4-7/8” pockets. He didn’t practice for months on that particular table lengthening his runs until he popped a 526. It just happened to be the table he was performing an exhibition on on that particular evening.

In my record book:
3.5 x 7 high run record = ?
4 x 8 high run record = Willie Mosconi
4.5 x 9 high run record = ?
5 x 10 high run record = Joe Balsis

Ron F
 

sausage

Banned
I respectfully disagree. I think the equipment and conditions do matter. I don't think even Mosconi would have been able to run 526 on a pro-cut Diamond. There's certain shots you can play where you can cheat the pocket and get away with on a Brunswick but not a Diamond. Plus, at 4 7/8", Mosconi had a much larger margin for error.

I think it should be attempted on the same conditions Mosconi had. To me, that's only fair.

this is a moot point and a tiresome argument. all world records have equipment differences, weather related differences, et.... by comparison; a basketball record for the most baskets sunk in a single game would have to be broken with the exact same players at the exact same age with the same crowd, on the same court, otherwise everyone would say; "sure but he did it against the worst team in the NBA..." the same goes with baseball records, golf and all sports. the variables are too great to emulate so fergeddaboutit... furthermore; mosconi made that run as part of his daily ritual, not 'on cue' with video running. therefore the basis of this event with four "swings of the bat" adds greatly to the degree of difficulty.... they may for 'shits and grins' call it "Beat or Match Mosconi's Record" but really, it's just a fun event.

the record will likely be beaten but in the same way mosconi made his record. on a lazy day when a top player is pushing balls around and everything is going his way....
 

Ron F

Ron F
Silver Member
fergeddaboutit

this is a moot point and a tiresome argument. all world records have equipment differences, weather related differences, et.... by comparison; a basketball record for the most baskets sunk in a single game would have to be broken with the exact same players at the exact same age with the same crowd, on the same court, otherwise everyone would say; "sure but he did it against the worst team in the NBA..." the same goes with baseball records, golf and all sports. the variables are too great to emulate so fergeddaboutit... furthermore; mosconi made that run as part of his daily ritual, not 'on cue' with video running. therefore the basis of this event with four "swings of the bat" adds greatly to the degree of difficulty.... they may for 'shits and grins' call it "Beat or Match Mosconi's Record" but really, it's just a fun event.

the record will likely be beaten but in the same way mosconi made his record. on a lazy day when a top player is pushing balls around and everything is going his way....


Gotta disagree here. Records in some sports, such as track and field, DO NOT COUNT if they are deemed to be wind-aided. So in other words, a weather-related difference can affect whether a performance is an official record or not.

As for points scored in a basketball game the comparison to pool is ludicrous. The difference between a 4 x 8 and a 4.5 x 9 table is 21% in square footage and is equivalent to the difference between the rim being set at 10’ and the rim being set at 7’10” (or 12'2"). If the rim was set 2 feet lower or higher than standard and a record was set you can damn sure believe it wouldn’t be recognized as a true record.

Ron F
 

Bobby

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is an interestingly tough issue and one that highlights the vagueness of our sport and contributes to making life miserable for serious pool players and confusing to non-players. When the 100 yard dash changed to 100 meters; the 100 yard records were retired, never to be broken again. So what do we have:

3.5 x 7 tables
4 x 8 tables
4.5 x 9 tables
5 x 10 tables
Mali 80/20 cloth
Simonis cloth
Brunswick tables
Diamond tables
4-1/2” pockets
4-3/4” pockets
4-7/8” pockets
5” pockets

Should each set of variables have its own high run record? With just the 12 named variables above, that’d be 144 different high run records. That’s a bit much. I’d say the high run on each of the table sizes should be recognized and that’s it. The other variables are all situational. Mosconi didn’t set out to set the record on a 4 x 8 with 4-7/8” pockets. He didn’t practice for months on that particular table lengthening his runs until he popped a 526. It just happened to be the table he was performing an exhibition on on that particular evening.

In my record book:
3.5 x 7 high run record = ?
4 x 8 high run record = Willie Mosconi
4.5 x 9 high run record = ?
5 x 10 high run record = Joe Balsis

Ron F

What did Balsis run on a 5 x 10?
 

Ron F

Ron F
Silver Member
Caras, not Balsis

Meant to say Caras, not Balsis. Balsis was on my mind because I was just talking about him yesterday.

Ron F
 

Bobby

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Meant to say Caras, not Balsis. Balsis was on my mind because I was just talking about him yesterday.

Ron F

Caras has the high run on a 5 x 10?

As far as I know Mosconi and Crane had both run a 309 on a 5 x 10, then Mosconi beat it with a 353. Babe Cranfield supposedly ran a 420 ball run on a 5 x 10 with a room full of spectators.
 

Winston846

Aspiring 14.1 Player
Silver Member
this is a moot point and a tiresome argument. all world records have equipment differences, weather related differences, et.... by comparison; a basketball record for the most baskets sunk in a single game would have to be broken with the exact same players at the exact same age with the same crowd, on the same court, otherwise everyone would say; "sure but he did it against the worst team in the NBA..." the same goes with baseball records, golf and all sports. the variables are too great to emulate so fergeddaboutit... furthermore; mosconi made that run as part of his daily ritual, not 'on cue' with video running. therefore the basis of this event with four "swings of the bat" adds greatly to the degree of difficulty.... they may for 'shits and grins' call it "Beat or Match Mosconi's Record" but really, it's just a fun event.

the record will likely be beaten but in the same way mosconi made his record. on a lazy day when a top player is pushing balls around and everything is going his way....

And exactly what are you trying to say here?
 
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