Timing of different races for tournament planning

Is there a general time used for different races to calculate how long a tournament should/will last?

I'm working on a couple of tournaments and would like to know how much time I need.

Thanks!

Bob Jewett said:

AtLarge frequently posts time per rack for the matches he tracks. Figure that some amateurs and even some pros will take 2-3 times longer than that if you let them. A quick scan of his times shows 4 to 9 minutes per game for a variety of 8, 9 and 10 ball matches.

For nine ball tournaments in this area a while ago, races to 6 typically took 45 minutes to complete. That was about 5 minutes per rack. There was one player whose matches typically took twice as long. If he worked his way through the one-loss side, we were in for a long night.

Since you're interested in a schedule, I assume you will not be playing one pocket.

Edit: For the average number of racks you should figure one less than hill-hill, so a race to 6 will have 10 games.

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Thanks, Bob and I totally forgot about AtLarge's posts, I'll go do some research. I'm also thinking about a time limit, ever deal with that?

And yeah, no 1P, but I am thinking Bar Box 9.1 (we have a lack of quality 9 footers here and I don't like playing 14.1 on a bar box) so that will throw a wrench in the timing of things. The other will be 9B or 10B so that's easier to time.

How does 1.25 hours per round sound?

And honestly, I'm not sure if it's going to be 8, 9, or 10 for this one.

I'm guessing that on 5 minutes a game, race to 7 (so 12 games) = 60 minutes and then adding 25%?

As long as there are enough tables that seems doable. Should mostly be higher level players.

Maybe start each round at 1.5 hours?


Random thought - If I stick to 32 player max, that's 16 players on 8 tables. Need to figure out that math.

Bob Jewett said:

In general you are better going with "first open table". That's the way Matchroom did it for the US Open 9 Ball and they got through 256 players in three days exactly on time. There will be a lot less waiting around if there is one slow match.

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Thanks for the input. I was thinking of 1.25 or 1.5 simply because it allows for some type of schedule. That way, if there is a long wait they can run and get a bite to eat, etc. and they know their match won't start before a certain time. But you can't argue with 256 in 3 days.

calcuttaman said:

75 minutes **could** be good for some skill levels and horrible for others.

I have some pretty extensive stats on average times for matches.
BUT, it really depends on 3 things. Level of player, match length,
which game. If you give me some idea on those I could probably
help you a bit.

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Higher level players, races to 7/5, with final to 11 or 13, probably 10B.

Thanks.

Was trying to figure out 16, 32, and 64 players. I have zero idea how many people will sign up at this point.

Bob Jewett said:

All of the US Open 9 Ball preliminary matches had scheduled start times and they were fairly close in spite of being a first-open-table format. If you have a list of matches in the order to be played you can add estimated start times for all of them. The company that scheduled the US Open, cuescore.com, set the estimated times and the actual start times were recorded. See the Results tab on the page http://www.matchroompool.com/usopen9ball/

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Thanks again Bob. Lots more research to do!

I was given some data on roughly 125 games in a masters match. It appears they averaged 11 games per set. I do not know if it was handicapped and I only know what the races was to on the high side - meaning - if I see a score of 8-1 I don't know if it was a race to 8 or an 8-6 race. But, given the different races I am assuming it was handicapped.

Races to 8 the losers averaged 4.57 wins
Races to 7 the losers averaged 3.95 wins
Races to 6 the losers averaged 3.34 wins

For an overall loss average of 3.95

So...

A race to 8 the average is 13 games.
A race to 7 the average is 11 games.
A race to 6 the average is 09 games.

That gives me an average of 11 games per match.

For timing I am going to stick with 5 minutes per match to hill-hill, for greens fees I'm going to use an average of 11 games.

This is a bar box tournament and need to work with the owner on greens fees.

336Robin said:

Plan as you must but there is always this one guy who is so slow that it
makes you want to scream as well as everyone else. Plan to have to deal with that guy
in a fair manner if he gets in the way.

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I was thinking a time limit of 1.75 or 2 hours, still mulling that over. I don't want to use it but I also don't want to get stuck with a 3 hour match with no control over the situation.

What's the general consensus on time limits?

pt109 said:

Just call Cuebuddy....he’s got the perfect device....

View attachment 522717

Put him on the clock

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LMAO, well played.

Bob Jewett said:

A nine ball match race to 8 should never take two hours.

Have you sketched out a full table assignment chart with rounds indicated? I doubt that you have two hours per match available.

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I guess that's why I'm here, to find out how long it takes and to learn what it takes to figure that out

And it will be 10B, but that won't make a huge difference.

As far as 2 hours, I totally agree so the question I have is - have you ever put a time limit on matches in a tournament and if so, what did you set it at? I don't want to piss anyone off but I also want to have the tools to manage time if needed.

And I created a spreadsheet showing the rounds, approximate time per round, table availability etc. There are 12 tables so round 1 will have to carry over, that means 3 hours for first round (will be a little shorter because as round 1 matches end we can begin round 2) 3 for second round and then 1.5 for each round after that as we'll have enough tables. Hoping to keep it to one day.

I did just find out a buddy of mine ran a huge tournament in Montana for years (last one was over 200 people but it was a while ago) and he's given lots of good advice and we will be sitting down soon to hash this out. I also printed out a few 32 man brackets and will play with the numbers.


I also calculated (well, I googled it) there will be a max of 64 matches (if loser double dips) otherwise it will be 63 matches. Give each match 1.5 hours and that's 96 table hours. 96/12 (available tables) is 8 hours of play. Even if I give 2 hours for each match that's 11 (10.67 for nerds) of table play round up to an even 12 for fun.

Right now I'm thinking doors open at 8 AM, Calcutta at 9 AM with play immediately following - should (big should) be done by 10 PM?

Bob Jewett said:

No. You have two rounds to finish the initial set of 16 matches in the winners bracket and then do not bother to count the winners-side matches. You next have a round of 16 players in the losers bracket. Then another round of 16 players in the losers bracket, then a round of 8 in the losers bracket and then another round of 8 in the losers bracket. Then 4 and 4 and 2 and 2 all in the losers bracket. Then the winner of the losers bracket goes over to play the winner of the winners side. That is a total of possibly 12 rounds.

You cannot play the finals of the tournament while 11 other matches are in progress. If you are down to six players you cannot fill 12 tables. You cannot simply divide the the number of matches by the number of tables.

Get a double elimination chart -- if that's really the kind of tournament you want to play -- and mark the time for each match. You are not allowed to start a match until both players have been determined for the match.

12 rounds at 1.5 hours per round starting at 9AM (no player will willingly show up that early, but you can dream) ends up taking until 3 AM. Pray you don't have many two-hour matches in the later rounds because each late match then adds directly to how long the tournament will take.

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And all that makes sense. I've been in an information gathering stage while trying to push through a bunch of stuff at work so I can go enjoy my vacation, I'll soak that up for a bit and then fill out my charts tomorrow.

Thanks for all your help Bob, I appreciate it.

EDIT: And that means 2 days for sure so a later starting time is in the future. That being said, I have been informed that the clientele at this location may get a little crazy after 10PM, so need to work around that as well.