Aiming System

Jaden

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
well..

mr3cushion said:
IMHO, the cues games and Golf are the 2 MOST difficult 'single person' sports to play!

Can someone tell me, "What is the one common denominator BOTH these sports have, that makes them so difficult!"

I'll check on replies In a couple of hours.
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Your primary focus is not on the ultimate objective...

In both golf and cue sports, you have to use one object to hit another object to another goal. In pocket billiards, it's even more exacerbated because you are using one object to hit another object that hits still another object towards the goal.

Now arguably, the field of golf is much more difficult compared to the felt and flat plane surface of the pool table slate, but the focal point is still two objects removed from the ultimate goal.

Jaden
 
DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
ChicagoRJ said:
I'm going to disagree with you Bill. Golf and cue sports are not even close to being the most difficult "single" sports to play. The fact that the ball is NOT moving makes the game a tad easier.

Tennis beats them both, just due to the athleticism required to play. Try returning a 100 plus MPH tennis serve, it would take you a decade to even walk onto the field with a pro. Not to mention the stamina required to play, the hand eye coordination or the power needed to hit a ball hard enough to get by your opponent.

That's the first sport that comes to mind, I really don't want to hurt my head and think of the many others. I love pool, but it does not come close to skill wise to other sports that I like, and are much more difficult to master.
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And hitting a baseball is even harder when you consider that a guy who on average fails 7 out of 10 times over his career is hall of fame material.
 
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Floppage

Floppage

True Beginner
Silver Member
mr3cushion said:
IMHO, the cues games and Golf are the 2 MOST difficult 'single person' sports to play!

Can someone tell me, "What is the one common denominator BOTH these sports have, that makes them so difficult!"

I'll check on replies In a couple of hours.
Click to expand...

Because the only "right way" to perform in both is the one that gets it in the hole. (or pocket) That means that everyone is either right or wrong based solely on the outcome.

So for new players looking for the right way to do something they will get an infinite number of variations on the answer with no clear way of figuring out which one to follow.
 
N

NitPicker

AzB Silver Member
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ChicagoRJ said:
I'm going to disagree with you Bill. Golf and cue sports are not even close to being the most difficult "single" sports to play. The fact that the ball is NOT moving makes the game a tad easier.

Tennis beats them both, just due to the athleticism required to play. Try returning a 100 plus MPH tennis serve, it would take you a decade to even walk onto the field with a pro. Not to mention the stamina required to play, the hand eye coordination or the power needed to hit a ball hard enough to get by your opponent.

That's the first sport that comes to mind, I really don't want to hurt my head and think of the many others. I love pool, but it does not come close to skill wise to other sports that I like, and are much more difficult to master.
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In the sports you mentioned, the difficulties/challenges reside with your opponent and their abilities, not the game itself. Hitting a tennis ball over the net into that huge square is not as difficult as pool or golf. Sorry.
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
It all depends on what you ask a System to do.

Wybrook said:
I'm not really sure people understand how they are aiming in pool and this causes confusion...

I want you and everyone who wants to know how you aim to have a clear pathway. Ive been down it and I found there are ways to better understand that are natural and easier to navigate.

Every "aiming system" is flawed horribly once you get beyond basics. Nothing really works consistently as there is no "one" spot to hit the object ball.

That is true English is a factor which is why I break Aiming into 2 parts. Center Ball Aiming and Aiming with English. Center Ball aiming is about finding an arrival point. Aiming with English you can have Parallel allowances to take into consideration or the cancelling of the effects of squirt, which are separate skill sets that will not be covered in a 1 part aiming system. You are correct in that there is no One Shoe that fits all however knowledge of both parts works perfectly

To be clearer, say you are shooting at a ball that is at a 45 degree angle and about 6 feet away. You have to adjust for so many variances that "systems" don't hold up. If you use english, the "aiming" spot can vary 2" depending on the speed at which you strike the ball...and yes, this applies to low deflection shafts as well.

You are wrong here about low deflection shafts and about cue that have a pro taper most of them squirt less than 2.25 inches over a table length and low deflection around 1.5 inches with a super hard stroke. Most shots with English dont go beyond 5 diamonds of distance and I can tell you after studying squirt allowances there is no shaft made that will squirt 2 inches at that distance unless its a 13mm, 12in taper with a full Ivory Ferrule and at 3 or 6 oclock. I do understand what you are saying and why you would say that. I understand the Parallel allowance well enough to know for 2 of those shaft types you are completely wrong an only right under very special circumstances that are unlikely. Allowances are measured in distance and subject to a formula that I have and exist nowhere else in print.....for which I will print in my next book.....The Flight of the Cue Ball. I do understand what you are saying though and you obviously mean well.

Any time you shoot a shot and miss, whether using a system or not, your brain makes little adjustments to help you make the ball.. So the final result is that you make the ball but you don't realize that you are over or under-cutting the ball to adjust for english and speed. (here is where arguments happen because people insist they are going by the system when in fact they are making arbitrary adjustments based on past experiences)

This is true and at the distances you suggest is exactly how things will be. You keep you systems in mind that you use and you seek to apply the principles and in so doing develop your feel to make it happen and as you say you learn to adjust based on prior knowledge.

Systems help you determine "approximately" where to strike the ball but don't hold up for half the shots....and for the shots they "work" on, you are probably not actually hitting where your system told you to hit.

My system is different from pivot methods in that I describe vividly how to learn where to hit the ball which is the problem many players have. In my system you align correctly and set up for the shot and there are not pivots and you are always looking at the object ball for your answer until you drop in to position to make the shot and are behind the cue ball.

I wish there was an easy way to make shots, but in reality, playing long hours is what's going to make you a better player....not systems. The problem is "long hours" doesnt sound very appealing and is hard to sell, while "Systems" are so very easy to sell.

There is an easier way ---to learn to make shots---- but there in not an easier way to be better than some practice using the system that makes learning it--- easier. What I dont do in my system is make you do something that puts you out of line with what I consider normal best practices for shot making that have been handed down from player to player since the beginning. I show you how to develop the skills you need based off of something we all have and that is depth perception. Many people want shot making to be perfectly objective to a clinical degree and I dont advocate such a principle. I want you to know how to get in touch with the shot and I show the pathway to it. Each person has to make a personal journey and if he has a clue what to look for and recognize then its easier for them.
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The word....System....has become tainted in the circles of which people practice Pool as an art form and are in touch with their depth perception, the angle and the Spin of the shot and I understand how that has happened. I was not a part of this so please dont shoot the Systems guy when he is bringing you something absolutely different that what you have been exposed to.

All I ask you or anyone else is to let me have a chance to help you get in touch with a game where all of the feel of the game is the most important factor, taking some direction in learning how to aim if you need it and later on learning how to aim with English which I can most certainly tell you how in the book I am working on now The Flight of the Cue Ball.

I've seen so many people come into Pool and have no good ideas of their own on how to get better and then they quit playing and go onto Golf...or something else even.

Hit a Million Balls is not an aiming method and yes thats the way its been done and that way isnt necessary for every single aspect of this game. I believe that its possible that once you find your best learning method that you can arrive at the same place traditionally found by HAMB in a much shorter period but not without practice.

What has traditionally happened during this time is that people would develop good fundamentals, strokes and start to address alignments and then start to get better.

What I want is a chance to introduce another way to understand the game that puts you on the money on alignments shows you what is happening with Cue Ball Induced Throw then teach you to cope with it, cancel it and spin the ball.

I am wishing I never used the word System in my Title because now I have a huge battle to fight with an understanding that puts me on the other side.

If you have a better more acceptable word than Systems I would love to hear it.

Thank you,
 
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CJ Wiley

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
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the player can enter the "zone," or in pool's case "dead stroke".

bwally said:
I am curious how you "think" PGA Golfers aim (I played pro golf back in the 90's). I bet it is way different than you think..
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The feet establish the alignment, and the club face establishes the point of aim. The most important thing is to understand how to extend the margin of error by either fading or drawing the ball.

Aiming still requires instinct, and it's mainly accomplished by allowing the subconscious to lower the brain waves so the player can enter the "zone," or in pool's case "dead stroke".
 
bwally

bwally

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CJ Wiley said:
The feet establish the alignment, and the club face establishes the point of aim. The most important thing is to understand how to extend the margin of error by either fading or drawing the ball.

Aiming still requires instinct, and it's mainly accomplished by allowing the subconscious to lower the brain waves so the player can enter the "zone," or in pool's case "dead stroke".
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Pretty good. Most of us established a point directly in front of the ball and in line with the target. The clubface was aimed at that the your body (not just your feet) were situated relative to the clubface. The process was the same between full shots and putts.

The aiming part was definitely a conscious effort though. Some days it was easier than others. The execution part was the subconscious effort. Unless you were making physical changes to your mechanics.
 
KRJ

KRJ

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NitPicker said:
In the sports you mentioned, the difficulties/challenges reside with your opponent and their abilities, not the game itself. Hitting a tennis ball over the net into that huge square is not as difficult as pool or golf. Sorry.
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Too funny. You think you could return a ball from a professional tennis player serving at well over 100mph. The fastest serve ever clocked is over 160mph. You would NOT even get your racket on the ball, let alone return it to the "big square". If you did some how manage to hit it, the ball would go just about everywhere but that "big square" !!

Sorry, but pool does not rank very high on the athletic skill meter... just a fact, does not mean we can't still love it. You know what tennis, baseball, and basketball players make MILLIONS, cause not many folks can do what they do.

A baseball player signed a $325M contract over the winter. I'm willing to bet that is more money than every pro pool player made combined, since the history of the sport ;)
 
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Tramp Steamer

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
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mr3cushion said:
Then why didn't that answer come to mind for YOU?

Just as in the way TOP players make the game looks so easy, 'Simplicity' is the key based on sound fundamentals and proper knowledge!
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No wonder you're not on Dick's Christmas card list.
 
mr3cushion

mr3cushion

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Tramp Steamer said:
Listen, Cushion, if that is indeed your real name. When you can play to a three handicap, then you can tell me something about golf.
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I was a 2 for 25 years and played in MORE Pro and Pro-Am events in the Midwest than YOU can imagine! If I wasn't 70 years old, We'd be out betting it up HIGH!

I use to play Cog #4 and 2 every Wednesday and Sunday for BIG$, along with Kemper lakes gambling with Ditka and Stan Makita who was the asst. Pro there.

Sounds like I would have had to give YOU a stroke!

If you gambled, around Chicago, you would have been a 'shortstop!'

You should be careful of what and whom you speak of, when you don't know their abilities!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion" here, write it down somewhere!
 
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N

NitPicker

AzB Silver Member
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ChicagoRJ said:
Too funny. You think you could return a ball from a professional tennis player serving at well over 100mph. The fastest serve ever clocked is over 160mph. You would NOT even get your racket on the ball, let alone return it to the "big square". If you did some how manage to hit it, the ball would go just about everywhere but that "big square" !!

Sorry, but pool does not rank very high on the athletic skill meter... just a fact, does not mean we can't still love it. You know what tennis, baseball, and basketball players make MILLIONS, cause not many folks can do what they do.

A baseball player signed a $325M contract over the winter. I'm willing to bet that is more money than every pro pool player made combined, since the history of the sport ;)
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I hear ya, and I agree with what you're saying. What I'm saying, and what the question was in regard to is the execution of the specific skills for each game, not the opponents. If you hit a tennis ball against a wall so it comes back, how hard is that to execute a return? That's the comparison to pool itself. In tennis the racket is several times larger than the ball so making accurate contact with the ball is far easier than hitting a CB with ~13mm diameters. Get it?
 
B

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
NitPicker said:
Hitting a tennis ball over the net into that huge square is not as difficult as pool or golf. Sorry.
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You're kidding, right?

That's like someone lining up a 6" straight-in pool shot and saying "What's so hard about this?"

I could teach a semi-pro tennis player to play competitive pool in six months. Do the same with a semi-pro pool player and he'd get murdered on the tennis court even after years of lessons.
 
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NitPicker

AzB Silver Member
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I don't think you guys understand. Professionally playing those games is hard because the COMPETITION IS TOUGH...not that the games are inherently tough to play. There's a difference and you guys are arguing the wrong damn point.
 
Tramp Steamer

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
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mr3cushion said:


I was a 2 for 25 years and played in MORE Pro and Pro-Am events in the Midwest than YOU can imagine! If I wasn't 70 years old, We'd be out betting it up HIGH! I use to play Cog #4 and 2 every Wednesday and Sunday for BIG$, along with Kemper lakes gambling with Ditka and Stan Makita who was the asst. Pro there.
Sounds like I would have had to give YOU a stroke!
If you gambled, around Chicago, you would have been a 'shortstop!'
You should be careful of what and whom you speak of, when you don't know their abilities!
Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion" here, write it down somewhere!
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I can't tell you how many times I've heard this sort of crap spew forth on this forum.
Dropping names like it's supposed to mean something. Or, if I wasn't 70 years old, for crissakes.
What the hell. If the dog hadn't stop to shit he would have caught the rabbit, too.
 
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