Recently purchased the West System epoxies. Learning from my mistakes and it is becoming painful. What group of Epoxies and Hardeners are primarily used for Cue Building? Obviously, mixing different groups is not recommended.
West System Epoxies
- Thread starter Lizardking
- Start date
Yes, But my Resin is 105-A (Group A) and my Hardeners are 205-B, 206-B (Group B). It has become apparent to me that mixing the groups is not recommended. Before I invest anymore money, I wanted to see what Group is the preferred group with Cue makers. I tried to research the topic, but the website for West System Epoxies created an error.
That's why I only use 206.
Put the hardener in the cup, multiple the weight in 6.
3 grams of hardener=18 grams total of mix.5 to 1 mix.
206 for all assembly use outside of ferrules.
Un-thickened to penetrate/wick then follow with ketchup thick mix.
Heat gun has some use in the process too.
Put the hardener in the cup, multiple the weight in 6.
3 grams of hardener=18 grams total of mix.5 to 1 mix.
206 for all assembly use outside of ferrules.
Un-thickened to penetrate/wick then follow with ketchup thick mix.
Heat gun has some use in the process too.
Only a hobby cue maker, but i've been using about 5 gals of WEST a year for the past 30 years for other millwork. IOW, I buy it in C units.
You have not actually stated what your problem is?
The best way is as Joey describes. Actual weight.
If you use the pumps, be careful of 3 things. 1.) the pumps are all the same units 2.) The pumps are always put in the correct container, resin in resin, hardener pump in one of the hardeners. The pumps are different size between resin and hardener. Don't mix them up. 3.) the pumps are always primed and yielding a full dose. No more, no less.
The pump packs sometimes include a 3:1 pump for the new laminating resin. Throw it out. Or at least don't get it mixed up with the 105/205/206 family, which is 5 resin to 1 hardener.
This can make pumps a problem for people using small quantities. The pump loses prime, you start guessing how to make it up, it all goes wrong. If you use pumps & use them after lapses, get used to squirting a shot in a clean empty cup to be sure the prime is good, before shooting into your mixing container. I just throw the primer shots out, but they can be returned to the can.
WEST sells pumps separately. I keep a few packs on hand for when one goes bad and won't hold a prime. Again, just make sure the pumps are all the same unit. You can still use them in any size can; so long as the resin pump goes in the resin, and the hardener pump in one of the hardeners.
You can mix 205 with 206, say by alternating shots.
I pump one shot resin, one shot hardener, in that order, all the time. Then i don't lose count, even if going to 15 or 20 shot of each mix. But within that, you can choose to go 1 shot resin, one shot 205, 1 shot resin, 1 shot 206, or any sequence desired. In the summer you probably only want the slow stuff. In winter maybe only the fast stuff depending on shop heat. Sometimes a mix makes sense on a large glue-up.
Per WEST advice, i always use some cotton flocking in the mix. Does not have to be a lot; but especially on dense cue woods it can help prevent starved joints. Always thoroughly mix the epoxy, before adding any fillers.
Even if using pumps to dispense, for small quantities i'd stick to Joey's method of keeping track of weight on a scale. Tare out the scale with the empty mixing container so it is not a factor in the weight calc.
You probably already know this, but just in case: People who come from mixing fiberglass resins might not take the mix ratio seriously for epoxy. For vinyl or polyester resin for fiberglass, if you want it to set slow, you use less hardener. Fast, you add a little more.
This flat does not work for any epoxy type. The ratio is critical. WEST says a little under for the hardener won't hurt. A little too much, and you have an uncured oxidizer eating away in the mix of whatever is being built; plus the bond will be weaker.
Good luck!
smt
You have not actually stated what your problem is?
The best way is as Joey describes. Actual weight.
If you use the pumps, be careful of 3 things. 1.) the pumps are all the same units 2.) The pumps are always put in the correct container, resin in resin, hardener pump in one of the hardeners. The pumps are different size between resin and hardener. Don't mix them up. 3.) the pumps are always primed and yielding a full dose. No more, no less.
The pump packs sometimes include a 3:1 pump for the new laminating resin. Throw it out. Or at least don't get it mixed up with the 105/205/206 family, which is 5 resin to 1 hardener.
This can make pumps a problem for people using small quantities. The pump loses prime, you start guessing how to make it up, it all goes wrong. If you use pumps & use them after lapses, get used to squirting a shot in a clean empty cup to be sure the prime is good, before shooting into your mixing container. I just throw the primer shots out, but they can be returned to the can.
WEST sells pumps separately. I keep a few packs on hand for when one goes bad and won't hold a prime. Again, just make sure the pumps are all the same unit. You can still use them in any size can; so long as the resin pump goes in the resin, and the hardener pump in one of the hardeners.
You can mix 205 with 206, say by alternating shots.
I pump one shot resin, one shot hardener, in that order, all the time. Then i don't lose count, even if going to 15 or 20 shot of each mix. But within that, you can choose to go 1 shot resin, one shot 205, 1 shot resin, 1 shot 206, or any sequence desired. In the summer you probably only want the slow stuff. In winter maybe only the fast stuff depending on shop heat. Sometimes a mix makes sense on a large glue-up.
Per WEST advice, i always use some cotton flocking in the mix. Does not have to be a lot; but especially on dense cue woods it can help prevent starved joints. Always thoroughly mix the epoxy, before adding any fillers.
Even if using pumps to dispense, for small quantities i'd stick to Joey's method of keeping track of weight on a scale. Tare out the scale with the empty mixing container so it is not a factor in the weight calc.
You probably already know this, but just in case: People who come from mixing fiberglass resins might not take the mix ratio seriously for epoxy. For vinyl or polyester resin for fiberglass, if you want it to set slow, you use less hardener. Fast, you add a little more.
This flat does not work for any epoxy type. The ratio is critical. WEST says a little under for the hardener won't hurt. A little too much, and you have an uncured oxidizer eating away in the mix of whatever is being built; plus the bond will be weaker.
Good luck!
smt
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Growing Pain #743:
Evidently I either mixed it incorrectly or the low temperature has caused issue with my application. I'm going to purchase a digital scale and do as JoeyInCali suggests, measure in weight. I was using a measuring dispenser in small quantities and it obviously is not practical. I found the attached video and what it is telling me is that the groupings are merely size ratios, its not as I envisioned, different properties. I tried to find some reading materials about the different groups and couldn't find anything. I came across this video and will attach it so anybody else that has a desire for info will be able to view it. Thank all of you for your info.
Cheers,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2u1Yd5bcsQ
Evidently I either mixed it incorrectly or the low temperature has caused issue with my application. I'm going to purchase a digital scale and do as JoeyInCali suggests, measure in weight. I was using a measuring dispenser in small quantities and it obviously is not practical. I found the attached video and what it is telling me is that the groupings are merely size ratios, its not as I envisioned, different properties. I tried to find some reading materials about the different groups and couldn't find anything. I came across this video and will attach it so anybody else that has a desire for info will be able to view it. Thank all of you for your info.
Cheers,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2u1Yd5bcsQ
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If you haven't heard about Hawk epoxy you might want to compare it. I've used it for 3 years and had no problems. Formula is very similar (possibly identical) to west systems and cost is much lower.
You are absolutely right. Just mixed up a batch by measuring weight as previously discussed, worked flawlessly. Live and learn.
If you buy a scale that does 1/10 of a gram. I Cut coke cans in half and clean them good. You can turn them upside down and mix in the bottom. You can mix just enough for a butt sleeve and be very accurate. You never waste much this way and if its cold where you are use the fast hardner in the winter and the slow in the summer.
The clear plastic cups on big bottles of laundry soap make good mixing cups for larger batches, when the leftover epoxy hardens it pops out of the cups very easy. For small batches medicine cups on ebay are cheap and work very well.
For previous poster the West System Epoxy Scale works very well and has the mixing weight formulas printed on the inside cover of the scale.
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I’ve mixed up several batches since creating this post. Using a scale to weigh the portions when mixing, is the solution to my problem. I was previously using a syringe type dispenser to mix the resin and hardener. That approach is not recommended.
JC
Coos Cues
Condiment cups without lids are also very cheap and are 2 oz instead of 1 oz medicine cups for a slightly larger container. I like them because I can soak my rings in them during assembly as they have a larger diameter than the medicine cups even if you're still only mixing up an oz.
Also the 207 3.7-1 clear hardener isn't clear as they claim. It yellows with the best of them.
This should come in quite handy once I become knowledgeable about how much epoxy I will need for the different components.
JC
Coos Cues
I submerge all my wooden rings in the epoxy for a bit after I mix it up so they don't end up soaking up the epoxy from the joint as most are quite porous with all end grain. Plastic or fiber rings of course not a thing.