The 3 hit the 6 - but the 6 was frozen against the rail.
Is that a legal hit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbEIYL53mmA&feature=youtu.be&t=1384
Is that a legal hit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbEIYL53mmA&feature=youtu.be&t=1384
Did Ko hit a rail?
- Thread starter gordml
- Start date
The six was not frozen to the rail. Had it been so, the referee would have had to announce it in advance for it to be treated as frozen to the rail under the rules. There was no such announcement. It was not a foul.
You'll notice at about 23:00 that the referee correctly walks to the other side of the table to check for a frozen ball. That's how a good referee handles it.
You'll notice at about 23:00 that the referee correctly walks to the other side of the table to check for a frozen ball. That's how a good referee handles it.
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If the six ball was not called frozen prior to the shot then it's a good hit. It looked like it may have been slightly off the rail anyway.
The 6 could have been off the rail enough to see from where the ref and players were. I think they could see better than we can on the video. Alex didn't let out a peep. Alex was free to call for a ruling before the shot. If it was frozen it was a mistake on everyone at the table.
doesn't matter if it was frozen or not as long as nobody called it frozen
In order to check that 6 ball the ref need to put his hand over shadow it, that's how close it was. Which he never did. No one would know for sure now, but from the way it rolled, most likely it's rail frozen.
It is officially a legal hit since no one check the 6 or would think the 6 would be hit. My point was the ref never check on that 6 ball and it most likely an unofficial foul.
It is officially a legal hit since no one check the 6 or would think the 6 would be hit. My point was the ref never check on that 6 ball and it most likely an unofficial foul.
And it would be unlikely for the ref to even consider the 6 from where Ko was kicking from.
And I agree its impossible to tell from looking at the video whether the 6 was frozen.
The referee was looking at the 6 when the 3 hit it.
True.
But it would have been too late to call a foul then.
If I were the ref I never would have thought of checking the 6 before the shot.
That's why you're not the ref
In order for it to be a foul the 6 would need to have been declared frozen prior to the shot. It wasn't so no foul.
In order for the 6 to be called frozen, it would obviously actually need to be frozen and it's not. Check the break https://youtu.be/RbEIYL53mmA?t=1164 and the very last movement of the 6 is rocking away from the rail.
Regards, Dave
In order for the 6 to be called frozen, it would obviously actually need to be frozen and it's not. Check the break https://youtu.be/RbEIYL53mmA?t=1164 and the very last movement of the 6 is rocking away from the rail.
Regards, Dave
Actually, based on the nature of the double kiss, I feel fairly certain that the six was a little off the rail. At that speed, I don't think a frozen ball would come out as much as it did. The commentator, similarly, mentioned that it was off the rail, not that it might have been against the rail, which they'd have said if they had believed it possible. Your statement that this could only be determined by standing over the ball is false, as it can also be determined by looking along the long rail, but if you watch again, you'll see that the referee did stand over the six ball before making the call.
At least you seem to understand that it's not a foul as a player is entitled to be notified of a frozen ball situation in a refereed match.
At least you seem to understand that it's not a foul as a player is entitled to be notified of a frozen ball situation in a refereed match.
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It's the opponent's responsibility to call a ball frozen.
If he doesn't it's treated as not frozen.
That is the rule in an unrefereed match, not in a refereed match.
When there is a ref, however, a ruling can be requested by either player, but in this case, it doesn't appear that anyone present thought the six to be frozen to the rail.
Those are actually the league rules. This event goes by WPA rules, which does have the same rule on balls on the rail:
My mistake, but yes as you said, the same rule exists there. I think a similar rule exists in almost any competitive venue serious enough to have a written rule book. Even the APA has the same rule.