Mosconi's 526 run POOL TABLE questions

K2Kraze · Feb 5, 2015

Hello, everyone.

After turning to a few sources that ultimately had no answers to my questions, I'd like to see if there are any AZB'ers that may be able to help in my quest for a few elusive facts regarding Willie Mosconi's run of 526 on the evening of March 19th, 1954 and more specifically the table specs.

The well documented and record-setting run at the East High Billiard Club in Springfield, OH is complete with the affidavit signed by 37 witnesses including his opponent Earl "Jack" Bruney, but is missing details on the POOL TABLE they played on.

What was recorded and written about back then points to the table being "a Brunswick 4'x8' with 5.25 inch pockets" but that seems to be the end of the media coverage - historical or otherwise - regarding the equipment.

What if we were to replicate that same pool table today? What was the true size? What were the pocket openings? If it was indeed a Brunswick table, which model of Brunswick table? Drop pocket or ball return? What color of cloth did it have? And so on.

The Brunswick billiard historian I asked could find no information since many records were destroyed years ago.

There are many other details surrounding that evening regarding all of the equipment in play that would be helpful if not extremely interesting (like the balls used) - so anything that anyone has to contribute in this thread will be greatly appreciated!

Thank you all!

LIVFST

tomatoetom · Feb 5, 2015

I would also like to no who has the 2nd highest run? I thought it was someone from WA. St.

K2Kraze · Feb 5, 2015

There are a few sites dedicated to answering that type of question, tomatoetom, in both the documented and "official" high run records as well as the "reported" but unverified record runs. A Google search will take you there.

This thread - and my questions for help on the equipment and especially the TABLE - are solely for the current recognized high run record of 526 that Mr. Mosconi set back in 1954.

LIVFST

pdcue · Feb 6, 2015

K2Kraze said:
There are a few sites dedicated to answering that type of question, tomatoetom, in both the documented and "official" high run records as well as the "reported" but unverified record runs. A Google search will take you there.

This thread - and my questions for help on the equipment and especially the TABLE - are solely for the current recognized high run record of 526 that Mr. Mosconi set back in 1954.

LIVFST

Have you done a search on AZB - the pocket size, as reported on Wiki is incorrect,
based, most likely, on an error in "Willies Game". I know someone who is
very familiar with the table in question.

Dale(search is your friend)

hang-the-9 · Feb 6, 2015

K2Kraze said:
There are a few sites dedicated to answering that type of question, tomatoetom, in both the documented and "official" high run records as well as the "reported" but unverified record runs. A Google search will take you there.

This thread - and my questions for help on the equipment and especially the TABLE - are solely for the current recognized high run record of 526 that Mr. Mosconi set back in 1954.

LIVFST

Actually the same thing applies to your question LOL, if you do a serach of the forums there are several threads about the Mosconi record.

K2Kraze · Feb 6, 2015

Dale -

Do tell all the facts that you may know regarding the questions I am asking in THIS thread

To answer your question to my numerous questions, yes, of course I have researched AZB on the subject but after reading through (literally) thousands and thousands of posts on that run - there remain very few details other than the ones I've already summarized earlier.

Once again, I put this thread out here looking for guidance, information and direction to information specifically related to the TABLE used for that run. So if there is anything you can constructively offer other than asking if I have done a search and saying what is being said out there is or may be inaccurate, I would really appreciate the help.

Thanks!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

lfigueroa · Feb 6, 2015

K2Kraze said:
Dale -

Do tell all the facts that you may know regarding the questions I am asking in THIS thread

To answer your question to my numerous questions, yes, of course I have researched AZB on the subject but after reading through (literally) thousands and thousands of posts on that run - there remain very few details other than the ones I've already summarized earlier.

Once again, I put this thread out here looking for guidance, information and direction to information specifically related to the TABLE used for that run. So if there is anything you can constructively offer other than asking if I have done a search and saying what is being said out there is or may be inaccurate, I would really appreciate the help.

Thanks!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I believe the issue is that this has been run through the mill numerous times over the years, so really a search is your best option.

Part of that is that people come and go here so when one or two guys have solid information and they no longer post, you need to go back and find what they wrote. In this case my recollection is that a couple of folks claimed to have owned "the table" at one time or another. Perhaps one owner was George Roode in the Dayton area. And maybe one guy said he measured the pockets and they were not at all as large as cited in Wiki. Maybe something like 4 3/4". But all that is from vague memory and before a second espresso. Good luck.

Lou Figueroa

K2Kraze · Feb 6, 2015

hang-the-9 said:
Actually the same thing applies to your question LOL, if you do a serach of the forums there are several threads about the Mosconi record.

Thank you as well for letting me know that many threads already exist on the run I asked about.

I must ask this - did you actually read the post that I MADE and the questions that I am asking for help on? This is exactly how and why many threads get off-topic so easily is because people seemingly think they are helping by reminding everyone to just "do a search" or "that topic has been covered" instead of just answering and helping the person asking.

Let me put this another way ----- with one example...

I have a pile of information from this forum regarding THAT RUN on such things as the affidavit that people quote saying there are "more than 35" or even "somewhat like 50" people that witnessed and proved the event. What those folks are doing is just repeating something they think they remember or think they are helping with when in reality they are just adding to the misinformation and even avoiding the questions asked.

My posted questions are NOT about "the run", they are about the TABLE from the perspective of replicating it exactly to the run that evening.

Thank you - sincerely - for your help BTW and offering some information.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

K2Kraze · Feb 6, 2015

Thank you, Lou.

The numbers on pocket size alone that you just pointed out are the kind of things I am trying to clarify.

Searching the forum and past thousands of replies on the run only brings up more of the same "here's what I heard" kind of thing. What I'm really after is credible information on the TABLE.

Do you by chance know anyone that actually did own the table or does have any of the information on the table in question?

I really appreciate you taking the time to offer up suggestions and help. Thanks again

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

hang-the-9 · Feb 6, 2015

K2Kraze said:
Thank you as well for letting me know that many threads already exist on the run I asked about.

I must ask this - did you actually read the post that I MADE and the questions that I am asking for help on? This is exactly how and why many threads get off-topic so easily is because people seemingly think they are helping by reminding everyone to just "do a search" or "that topic has been covered" instead of just answering and helping the person asking.

Let me put this another way ----- with one example...

I have a pile of information from this forum regarding THAT RUN on such things as the affidavit that people quote saying there are "more than 35" or even "somewhat like 50" people that witnessed and proved the event. What those folks are doing is just repeating something they think they remember or think they are helping with when in reality they are just adding to the misinformation and even avoiding the questions asked.

My posted questions are NOT about "the run", they are about the TABLE from the perspective of replicating it exactly to the run that evening.

Thanks for your help BTW.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I don't think that your post will magically come up with new info that you can't find out already from the many years that people have been talking about the table and everything else that happened with it LOL

No-one is avoiding questions but it's silly to think that after so many years of info, you posting this question will have Mosconi rise up from the grave and give you the exact details without any doubts as to what went on.

Your same question: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=55755

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=310275

And another one with some pocket info in there http://www.poolchat.net/forums/index.php?/topic/8218-willie-mosconis-high-run-of-526/

If you're looking for new amazing secret info that for some reason people held back just to let you know here, good luck.

If I posted somewhere "so I researched Jimmy Hoffa and I know he may or may not have been killed for this or that reason, but I don't see anything definite, could someone that knows let me know exactly what happened"? Do you think all of a sudden we'll have it all cleared up? Or do you think I'll get the same info that was researched already?

krupa · Feb 6, 2015

Your best bet is probably to contact Charles Ursitti at http://charlesursitti.com/. However, if the witness affidavit doesn't include the information then you will never know with accuracy. That moment (the writing of the affidavit) was the time to record the information. Now, 50+ years later it's all anecdotal.

K2Kraze · Feb 6, 2015

Thanks, 9, for posting those threads. I did read through those as well. Interesting - and printed for my binder I have going on the stories of that night.

My hope after all these many years of similar threads like you've pointed out (one of the two you linked was from 2007) will be that we constantly have new members on this forum and just possibly one may see this thread and have an idea or connection. There's the remote chance that a long-time member may read the thread title, having capture their attention, and may be able to answer at least one question

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K2Kraze · Feb 6, 2015

krupa said:
Your best bet is probably to contact Charles Ursitti at http://charlesursitti.com/. However, if the witness affidavit doesn't include the information then you will never know with accuracy. That moment (the writing of the affidavit) was the time to record the information. Now, 50+ years later it's all anecdotal.

I will try contacting Mr. Ursitti once again.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Type79 · Feb 6, 2015

...............

lfigueroa · Feb 6, 2015

K2Kraze said:
Thank you, Lou.

The numbers on pocket size alone that you just pointed out are the kind of things I am trying to clarify.

Searching the forum and past thousands of replies on the run only brings up more of the same "here's what I heard" kind of thing. What I'm really after is credible information on the TABLE.

Do you by chance know anyone that actually did own the table or does have any of the information on the table in question?

I really appreciate you taking the time to offer up suggestions and help. Thanks again

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Don't know who, if anyone, has the table nowadays. (BTW, I have seen George's name spelled Roode, Rood, Rude, and Runde.)

As an interesting side note, I do recall that the table in question was described as a Sports King Brunswick and last year one guy here restored one. If you take a look at his photos it is clear, at least to me, that the pockets were under 5" and that running 526 on one of these tables would be no mean feat.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4854778

Lou Figueroa

pt109 · Feb 6, 2015

lfigueroa said:
Don't know who, if anyone, has the table nowadays. (BTW, I have seen George's name spelled Roode, Rood, Rude, and Runde.)

As an interesting side note, I do recall that the table in question was described as a Sports King Brunswick and last year one guy here restored one. If you take a look at his photos it is clear, at least to me, that the pockets were under 5" and that running 526 on one of these tables would be no mean feat.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4854778

Lou Figueroa

George's name was Rood....could be translated as 'Cross'.

I played on that table as a kid at the urging of Russ Maddox, who was Rood's partner
In that room and was the man who arranged the Mosconi exhibition.
I didn't go around measuring pockets but I can tell you that there was nothing unstandard
about that table ( that I would have remembered )....so if you could contact Brunswick
and get the standard measurements for that era, I think that would be reliable.

realkingcobra · Feb 6, 2015

lfigueroa said:
Don't know who, if anyone, has the table nowadays. (BTW, I have seen George's name spelled Roode, Rood, Rude, and Runde.)

As an interesting side note, I do recall that the table in question was described as a Sports King Brunswick and last year one guy here restored one. If you take a look at his photos it is clear, at least to me, that the pockets were under 5" and that running 526 on one of these tables would be no mean feat.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=4854778

Lou Figueroa

Brunswick never produced a factory commercial pool table with corner pockets less than 5" and side pocket less than 5 1/2" until they started manufacturing the GC 4 tournament edition. I grew up playing on the Sport Kings, Anniversaries, and Centennials in the military as a soldier and a dependent, and those were the only pool tables ever used in the post recreation centers as well as the dayrooms.

pdcue · Feb 6, 2015

K2Kraze said:
Dale -

Do tell all the facts that you may know regarding the questions I am asking in THIS thread

To answer your question to my numerous questions, yes, of course I have researched AZB on the subject but after reading through (literally) thousands and thousands of posts on that run - there remain very few details other than the ones I've already summarized earlier.

Once again, I put this thread out here looking for guidance, information and direction to information specifically related to the TABLE used for that run. So if there is anything you can constructively offer other than asking if I have done a search and saying what is being said out there is or may be inaccurate, I would really appreciate the help.

Thanks!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I have, several times... that's why I'm suggesting a search... again.

Dale(should we make it a sticky?)

terryhanna · Feb 6, 2015

....................

pdcue · Feb 6, 2015

realkingcobra said:
Brunswick never produced a factory commercial pool table with corner pockets less than 5" and side pocket less than 5 1/2" until they started manufacturing the GC 4 tournament edition. I grew up playing on the Sport Kings, Anniversaries, and Centennials in the military as a soldier and a dependent, and those were the only pool tables ever used in the post recreation centers as well as the dayrooms.

The table was one that pre-dated the Sport King... probably similar to a 20th Century.

Dale

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