"twenty years from now, you'll be looking for a wooden shaft like a hen's tooth"

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
hi joey, great point-

maybe better for another thread
but I wonder if wood and cf could meet more in the middle

Maybe.
I suspect another material will eventually beat CF.
CF has so many pitfalls and is very costly.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe.
I suspect another material will eventually beat CF.
CF has so many pitfalls and is very costly.
They shouldn't be so expensive. You can get really high-end CF golf shafts in the $75-200 range and they have to withstand FAR more stress than any pool shaft. The pool shaft makers are just taking advantage of what is currently a crazy sellers market. Blanks are available now for under 100bux. Curious as to what you mean by "pitfalls"?
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
They shouldn't be so expensive. You can get really high-end CF golf shafts in the $75-200 range and they have to withstand FAR more stress than any pool shaft. The pool shaft makers are just taking advantage of what is currently a crazy sellers market. Blanks are available now for under 100bux. Curious as to what you mean by "pitfalls"?

I suspect a hollowed graphite will be so cheap, it might become the choice of bar bangers .
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I suspect a hollowed graphite will be so cheap, it might become the choice of bar bangers .
I've got a couple friends in the golf shaft business and i talked to one about this. He said there is NO way a pool shaft should cost $400+. He said that some golf shafts, especially the stiffer ones, use 70ton and 40ton carbon tow(EXPENSIVE stuff) and they might run $350bux. Most shafts are under $150. Just my opinion that the pool shaft makers are making serious profit on these things.
 

trinacria

in efren we trust
Silver Member
billiard games are unique as compared to other sports that need equipment such as tennis and golf. the power comes from the arm, the shaft just provides ability for the LEATHER tip to transfer kinetic energy on to the ball by the swing of your arm, so they can be using magical casting by the witches of salem, their magical shaft still needs a leather tip and chalk. and wood still provides the best FEEL, that why titlst cues get converted, bc 80 year old cues play and feel better than some new wood. im a wood purist, not against CF, just provides nothing for me. the only positive that comes out of it is it wont warp, but McDermott, cuetec already provide good wood shafts with warp resistence and they play just fine.
 

trinacria

in efren we trust
Silver Member
I've got a couple friends in the golf shaft business and i talked to one about this. He said there is NO way a pool shaft should cost $400+. He said that some golf shafts, especially the stiffer ones, use 70ton and 40ton carbon tow(EXPENSIVE stuff) and they might run $350bux. Most shafts are under $150. Just my opinion that the pool shaft makers are making serious profit on these things.

hell yeah its a ripoff. I started a thread about production cues and their costs and people said its the way it goes, things become more expensive, but I think predator started the trend of overcharging. their only saving grace is they support tournaments and pro-am tours. so its a give and take.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
billiard games are unique as compared to other sports that need equipment such as tennis and golf. the power comes from the arm, the shaft just provides ability for the LEATHER tip to transfer kinetic energy on to the ball by the swing of your arm, so they can be using magical casting by the witches of salem, their magical shaft still needs a leather tip and chalk. and wood still provides the best FEEL, that why titlst cues get converted, bc 80 year old cues play and feel better than some new wood. im a wood purist, not against CF, just provides nothing for me. the only positive that comes out of it is it wont warp, but McDermott, cuetec already provide good wood shafts with warp resistence and they play just fine.
Titleist conversions get made because they look cool. They don't feel/play any better.
 

trinacria

in efren we trust
Silver Member
Titleist conversions get made because they look cool. They don't feel/play any better.

I disagree, they provide excellent feedback, way better than most cues. old wood, stresses relieved over decades, straight grain maple, one of the best hitting cues you can own. its not about looking cool.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
I disagree, they provide excellent feedback, way better than most cues. old wood, stresses relieved over decades, straight grain maple, one of the best hitting cues you can own. its not about looking cool.

Got a Willie Hoppe Pro Model from the early 1940;s. Yeah, it does look cool but it plays no better than any other cue I have. I just like the uniqueness and saving a part of pool history (full restored)
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I disagree, they provide excellent feedback, way better than most cues. old wood, stresses relieved over decades, straight grain maple, one of the best hitting cues you can own. its not about looking cool.
No way to prove that they play better. If that's what you want to believe fine but there's zero proof of it. I've had a couple SUPER nice conversions. They didn't play any better than a current cue.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When the Slate changes the price will drop on tables. They will find a material to use instead or will make one.

There seem to actually be quite a few glass surface tables made. Unfortunately most seem priced many multiples of a GC6 or Diamond, let alone a used GC. I have not bought big pieces of glass in years, so don't really know current pricing; but any float glass ought to be dead flat. Once it's tempered, it can warp a little (or it used to). Not clear :grin: what they actually use, but it seems certainly a viable material once past the clear gimmick. IOW, just cover it up with Simonis, and use it for stability, strength, and inherent flatness. Should be lighter for the same strength (stiffness) and flatness, too.
Maybe Simonis or Champion would have to come up with a special cloth so it played the same as slate, but it should be close anyway. (with cloth, not clear polymer surface)

I think there's an Italian company, too.
This ones from Oz

https://www.eliteinnovations.com.au/abouteliteinnovations/

smt
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
I LOL'ed When the cartel-looking dude mentioned playing one or two balls better.

TWO BALLS??? Hell, I gotta get me a CF shaft then. I might actually break-and-run a rack every now and then. :rolleyes:

Maniac
 

nickgeo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Parallel or perpendicular to the shaft....

The big difference is that the tools of other sports - baseball bats, hockey sticks, tennis rackets, golf clubs, etc. - all have shafts that flex when the ball, or puck, or whatever is struck. That stores energy while the ball is compressed; that energy is released as the ball rebounds off the shaft. So significant advances in those tools. Not so much with a pool cue, where the ball is struck by the long axis of the shaft. Less storage and release of energy. The real advantage will be a shaft that compresses at the proper time scale along its axis. That's tougher materials engineering, if even anybody is thinking this way.
 

johnnysd

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It might if you can buy a Predator Revo cue for like $250 total. In my APA leagues the VAST majority cues I see are in the $100 to $500 range MAX. The segment will certainly grow, but cost will be the determining factor.
 

trinacria

in efren we trust
Silver Member
No way to prove that they play better. If that's what you want to believe fine but there's zero proof of it. I've had a couple SUPER nice conversions. They didn't play any better than a current cue.

OK boomer. lol
 

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Silver Member
I LOL'ed When the cartel-looking dude mentioned playing one or two balls better.

TWO BALLS??? Hell, I gotta get me a CF shaft then. I might actually break-and-run a rack every now and then. :rolleyes:

Maniac

Yep, claiming one or two balls better is a bit ridiculous.

Referring to the well spoken, well groomed and well dressed president of Predator as "the cartel looking dude" is as well.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
IMHO Real Wood Shafts will always have a following, like NON Layered Tips. Every Sport goes through the equiptment fads of latest, greatest, new, wonderful.

The only good News is if indeed Super Duper CF Shafts become in great demand, sooner or later the people in Aisa will figure out how to reverse em, and knock em off. Prices will fall, and everyone who want one can afford one.

Then the next things is the debate will be real thing better than kopy kat.
 
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