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01-05-2018, 12:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bond View Post
To clarify, I'm simply asking if you have a "new" idea or suggestion that could make any table, in your opinion, better than the rest.

It's easy to point out what is currently "wrong" with a table and correct it. So let's go beyond that and take a look at whether or not something else can be added or perhaps changed in ways not done before. It's still a pool table, so we cant change it's inherent structure, but at the same time, cars don't need cup holders to get you from point A to point B.

Cuebuddy mentioned not being able to see the diamonds when down on a shot...
This doesn't mean that the table is "broken" or doesn't work properly, it means that something could be changed or added to enhance its use...

Why not have diamonds that light up?
Or place diamond shaped stickers under the nose of the cushion so you can tell where a diamond is when you're down.
Perhaps a diamond marker can be made that will pop up from the rail 1/4" at the touch of a button.
Perhaps a button on the side of the table can turn on a laser which projects the diamond line across the table, only when you need to see it for a shot, then you turn it back off again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bond View Post
How about a touch-screen score keeper built into the rail, completely flush.
No more worries about broken dials or scratched cues.
And make it large/bright enough that if needed, you could see the score from almost anywhere around the table.
I like it, great for the game of 4 ball, especially when playing carry-overs
I'm taking notes, carry on...
thank you

...a note afoot,
I just figured out how multi-quote(s) works
and, I'm one of those carpenters who's thinks
he can make another version of these mouse traps.

Table is in the final assembly stage, making adjustments on the two ball returns on the side of the table,
cloth and finale late next week, had just ordered the cloth early this morning.
Not looking to achieve the best perfect table, that has already been accomplished,
I'm just looking for consistently predictable.

Last edited by Dan_B; 01-05-2018 at 01:15 PM.
  
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01-05-2018, 01:36 PM

Some of these are pretty good ideas.
Some would probably be too expensive, but could still be done if cost was no object.

I'm sure that people used to think that a heated slate was far-fetched too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelDaShot View Post

How about tables having a leveling meter that tells you when the table is too far out of tolerance and needs to be re-leveled?

Nice - and it wouldn't have to be "on" all the time. Perhaps there could be a "diagnostic check" feature that when activated, would check the level, and could tell you other info like how many hours/games have been played since cloth was last changed etc.

How about having a trap/filter within the ball return which collects things that are dropped in the pockets and can be easily cleaned out without taking the table apart?

Seems like this should be fairly easy. Maybe not.

How about a chalk holder ledge that sits below the top of the table and out of sight?

The old-school under-the-rail chalk holders were good for this.

How about cloth that comes with a line on it telling you exactly how far to stretch it?

Not a table improvement but still great for indexing.

How about a clamp system on the table which holds the cloth rather than glue or staples?

Ironically this has been invented a long time ago. Not sure why it didn't catch on.
It might have sucked.


How about better maintenance manuals that come with tables?

ideal

How about a scoring system to replace pennies under the rails which spectators can easily see?

Lots of options here. Could even add a score screen to the side of the overhead light

How about a better location for the coin mechanism so we can all stop banging our knees on it?

Should be an easy fix

How about a ball return system that instantly cleans the balls every time they come through the return? (This would be amazing!)

Good idea

How about a small but extremely effective and quiet vacuum on the side of the table for cleaning the felt within seconds?

I suddenly had a vision of a table with a hidden vacuum built-in underneath.
A little trap door on the side of the table could be opened up to reveal a retracting vacuum hose, long enough to reach the whole table.
  
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01-05-2018, 04:02 PM

To all the ideas mentioned so far, underatand this saying...

"The hardest jobs in the world, are made easy by all those that don't have to perform them."
  
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01-05-2018, 04:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iusedtoberich View Post
I'd like to see more design work done by the manufactures to make the tables more consistent when set up. Poka-yoke features so the table cannot be mis-assembled.

Maybe some features that would increase the life of the table also. Such as a replaceable piece on the rails that the staples go into. This way, when it is worn out with staple holes, it can be unbolted, and a new one put in. That might lead to trouble, like buzzing (such as when a cue loses its glue bond in the handle), but its a thought.

Another thing I have thought about, is if a system could be devised so that the cloth on the rails could be clamped in place, instead of stapled (again, to increase the longevity of the table). Perhaps something like a feather strip on the bottom of the rail, as well as on the top. Or, some sort of clamp feature that gets screwed down with machine screws.

Another thing, is we always here about rail bolts and/or nuts being stripped out. I wonder why not use a cap screw that goes all the through the rail, with a nut under the slate. It could go under the diamond inlays, and they could pop out when you need to access the head of the bolt when removing the rails. That would be a very secure way of holding the rails, and not relying on any of the captive inserts as nuts that have been used over the years. The aesthetics might suffer. Or, it could even build upon the earlier idea in this thread, and make the diamond sights proud of the surface, for easier visibility when down on a shot.

Speaking of diamonds, one could argue they are actually in the wrong spot. They should not be on the rails at all, but on the bed of the cloth where the "gutter line" is. This is talked about in Winning One Pocket (I believe it was that book...) that that is actually the true position the diamonds should be in. Maybe there is a way to put diamonds there, on top of the cloth.
The placement of the rail bolts serve a purpose, to hold the rail to the slate as secure as possible. Placing the rail bolts under the sights as you sugested would screw up the firmness in which the rails are bolted to the slate. A 9ft Brunswick GC for example has is rail bolts 18" on center. If they we're under the sights, they'd be 12 1/2" on center....leaving 12 1/2' of rail from the outside diamond to the corner pockets unsecured, which in turn would effect the rebound of the balls off the last 6" of rail to the pockets on every corner pocket. The system is not screwed up, the people working in the system are the ones screwed up....because people keep hiring them to work on pool tables....that right there is the problem in a nut shell!!
  
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01-05-2018, 04:33 PM

To Cobra:

I mean this in the nicest way possible, you are not helpful for brainstorming. You knock down each and every idea. Yes, of course you are the expert, and you have a good eye into what can be practically implemented, and what can't.

But, what you are doing is shutting down people's imaginations. That is the biggest no-no in a brainstorm. You want to keep the ideas coming. Even if they might be very far-fetched. Those ideas might jog someone's brain into coming up with some similar idea, that is not so far-fetched.

You do this consistently, for 10 years, or however long you've been on AZ. You started a thread 6 or 7 years ago about what improvements we would like to see on Diamond tables. A bunch of people had ideas (including me), and you systematically knocked them down one after another.

Ideas don't have to come from you or Mark to be worthy of consideration.

I design products for a living. We have brainstorms all the time. #1 rule, that we state in the beginning of every single brainstorm, is there are no bad ideas. BECAUSE we know that even "bad" ideas might lead to good ones.

I'd never invite you to a brainstorm if you worked in my company. I WOULD invite you afterwards, to review the ideas, and give me your expert feedback on them. But no way would you be in the room where the ideas are thought up.

And this has nothing to do with Diamond rail bounce
  
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01-05-2018, 04:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iusedtoberich View Post
I'd like to see more design work done by the manufactures to make the tables more consistent when set up. Poka-yoke features so the table cannot be mis-assembled.
Diamond dowels their corners, letters them, matches them, so that everything can only be assembled one way, yet in MD i had to work on a Diamond 9ft Pro that a table mechanic working at the Brunswick superstore set up for this customer. When i go a look at the table, all i could do was stare in aww, because nothing was lined up the way Diamond detailed in to go. The corner caps were in the wrong corners, the rail blinds were mounted in the wrong places....the table was an absolut mess....why? The table was clearly marked out where every part went! There is NO such thing as stupid proof, they'll prove you wrong everytime you think you've designed something that CAN'T be screwed up!
Maybe some features that would increase the life of the table also. Such as a replaceable piece on the rails that the staples go into. This way, when it is worn out with staple holes, it can be unbolted, and a new one put in. That might lead to trouble, like buzzing (such as when a cue loses its glue bond in the handle), but its a thought.

Another thing I have thought about, is if a system could be devised so that the cloth on the rails could be clamped in place, instead of stapled (again, to increase the longevity of the table). Perhaps something like a feather strip on the bottom of the rail, as well as on the top. Or, some sort of clamp feature that gets screwed down with machine screws.

Another thing, is we always here about rail bolts and/or nuts being stripped out. I wonder why not use a cap screw that goes all the through the rail, with a nut under the slate. It could go under the diamond inlays, and they could pop out when you need to access the head of the bolt when removing the rails. That would be a very secure way of holding the rails, and not relying on any of the captive inserts as nuts that have been used over the years. The aesthetics might suffer. Or, it could even build upon the earlier idea in this thread, and make the diamond sights proud of the surface, for easier visibility when down on a shot.

Speaking of diamonds, one could argue they are actually in the wrong spot. They should not be on the rails at all, but on the bed of the cloth where the "gutter line" is. This is talked about in Winning One Pocket (I believe it was that book...) that that is actually the true position the diamonds should be in. Maybe there is a way to put diamonds there, on top of the cloth.
Good luck with those ideas...LOL
  
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01-05-2018, 04:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iusedtoberich View Post
I'd like to see more design work done by the manufactures to make the tables more consistent when set up. Poka-yoke features so the table cannot be mis-assembled.

Maybe some features that would increase the life of the table also. Such as a replaceable piece on the rails that the staples go into. This way, when it is worn out with staple holes, it can be unbolted, and a new one put in. That might lead to trouble, like buzzing (such as when a cue loses its glue bond in the handle), but its a thought.

Another thing I have thought about, is if a system could be devised so that the cloth on the rails could be clamped in place, instead of stapled (again, to increase the longevity of the table). Perhaps something like a feather strip on the bottom of the rail, as well as on the top. Or, some sort of clamp feature that gets screwed down with machine screws.

Another thing, is we always here about rail bolts and/or nuts being stripped out. I wonder why not use a cap screw that goes all the through the rail, with a nut under the slate. It could go under the diamond inlays, and they could pop out when you need to access the head of the bolt when removing the rails. That would be a very secure way of holding the rails, and not relying on any of the captive inserts as nuts that have been used over the years. The aesthetics might suffer. Or, it could even build upon the earlier idea in this thread, and make the diamond sights proud of the surface, for easier visibility when down on a shot.

Speaking of diamonds, one could argue they are actually in the wrong spot. They should not be on the rails at all, but on the bed of the cloth where the "gutter line" is. This is talked about in Winning One Pocket (I believe it was that book...) that that is actually the true position the diamonds should be in. Maybe there is a way to put diamonds there, on top of the cloth.
With all the talent and know-how you have, it just blows .y mind as to why you haven't already came up with a pool cue that never misses a shot....you'd be the world champion in ALL games of pool, just like think....no one could beat you!

Just think, instead of selling that cue, you could rent it to who ever was willing to pay the most so they'd be guaranteed to when which ever tournament they rented it to play in....you could even decide who the world champions were gking to be based on who rented your "never miss a shot cue"

Last edited by realkingcobra; 01-05-2018 at 04:57 PM.
  
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01-05-2018, 05:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
With all the talent and know-how you have, it just blows .y mind as to why you haven't already came up with a pool cue that never misses a shot....you'd be the world champion in ALL games of pool, just like think....no one could beat you!

Just think, instead of selling that cue, you could rent it to who ever was willing to pay the most so they'd be guaranteed to when which ever tournament they rented it to play in....you could even decide who the world champions were gking to be based on who rented your "never miss a shot cue"
I'll rent it to you for the "friend" price... DOUBLE! ha ha ha
  
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01-05-2018, 05:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iusedtoberich View Post
To Cobra:

I mean this in the nicest way possible, you are not helpful for brainstorming. You knock down each and every idea. Yes, of course you are the expert, and you have a good eye into what can be practically implemented, and what can't.

But, what you are doing is shutting down people's imaginations. That is the biggest no-no in a brainstorm. You want to keep the ideas coming. Even if they might be very far-fetched. Those ideas might jog someone's brain into coming up with some similar idea, that is not so far-fetched.

You do this consistently, for 10 years, or however long you've been on AZ. You started a thread 6 or 7 years ago about what improvements we would like to see on Diamond tables. A bunch of people had ideas (including me), and you systematically knocked them down one after another.

Ideas don't have to come from you or Mark to be worthy of consideration.

I design products for a living. We have brainstorms all the time. #1 rule, that we state in the beginning of every single brainstorm, is there are no bad ideas. BECAUSE we know that even "bad" ideas might lead to good ones.

I'd never invite you to a brainstorm if you worked in my company. I WOULD invite you afterwards, to review the ideas, and give me your expert feedback on them. But no way would you be in the room where the ideas are thought up.

And this has nothing to do with Diamond rail bounce
In brain storming ideas, it ALWAYS helps to have some kind of knowledge or back ground when when it comes to brain storming new ideas. If NASA was interested in a new rocket ship, they'd be taking a look at ideas coming in from the aerospace industry....not a local fitness company....would they?
  
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01-05-2018, 05:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post

Diamond dowels their corners, letters them, matches them, so that everything can only be assembled one way, yet in MD i had to work on a Diamond 9ft Pro that a table mechanic working at the Brunswick superstore set up for this customer. When i go a look at the table, all i could do was stare in aww, because nothing was lined up the way Diamond detailed in to go. The corner caps were in the wrong corners, the rail blinds were mounted in the wrong places....the table was an absolut mess....why? The table was clearly marked out where every part went! There is NO such thing as stupid proof, they'll prove you wrong everytime you think you've designed something that CAN'T be screwed up!

Good luck with those ideas...LOL
Poka-yoke means you "can't" misassemble them. Diamond could make the dowels different sizes, so that even if the installer didn't pay attention to the letters, they couldn't be put into the wrong place.

I know all to well, "there is always a better idiot". We deal with it all the time at my company, as we have to design our products to be assembled by regular jo-shmo consumers. Table manufacturer's actually have it better, imo
  
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01-05-2018, 05:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iusedtoberich View Post
Poka-yoke means you "can't" misassemble them. Diamond could make the dowels different sizes, so that even if the installer didn't pay attention to the letters, they couldn't be put into the wrong place.

I know all to well, "there is always a better idiot". We deal with it all the time at my company, as we have to design our products to be assembled by regular jo-shmo consumers. Table manufacturer's actually have it better, imo
Not only were the dowels cut off, the A,B,C,D's in the corners and side skirts were NOT lined up....but clearly marked!!
  
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01-05-2018, 05:56 PM

Ok yall, here it goes. The first thing may or may not have been dome before, but of done as its in my mind I think not only would it be really cool but add tremendously to the playability of the table. The second thing is way outside of the box but his try to imagine it of it worked correctly.

First thing is some type of diffused light that rums the entire length and width of the table under the rails. Ot would be completely diffused so there should be absolutely no distraction like a blinking light from a pinball machine or the neon lights from the bar. I'd guess some type of soft white would work the best but with what they are doing with leds the color combinations are almost endless and could make some very cool looks.

Now; lol, the second idear. They now male paint that conducts and reacts to electricity. The paint can literally" light " itself. Brightness is controlled by voltage applied. So we have all seem the beds of tables lit before bit that was always using some type of Plexiglas or the like. Obviously you can.not play on a surface like that. I'm thinking using whatever cloth you normally wod.but applying several thin coats of this paint. Now you have a playable surface but now every square inch is lit up. No more shadows, no more overhead lights etc. How awesome would this be!
  
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01-05-2018, 06:05 PM

What's really sad, is the manufacturing industry designers design, then manufacture pool tables for sale, they get sold, then someone has to set them up. I guarantee you, if the idoits that designed some of these pool tables was required to set them up as well....they'd have taken 5 more looks at their design trying to figure out....how to perform the task of setting up that pool table that they designed.....because that's what installers have to do....figure out how to set up a stupid designed pool table, because the designers don't have to....not their job!!! And, pool tables today would play more consistent if the cushion manufactures knew anything more about their cushions other than just selling them, as even they have no idea at what sub rail thickness, what bevel, what nose height, or even which model of cushions play the best. And we're looking for ideas on how to improve pool tables.....how about the single most important idea of all....how about just making all pool tables play more consistent from one pool table to the next, how about a standard size of pockets, hell, even the cloth manufacures except Simonis today, can't tell you how to install their own brand of cloth correctly ....how's that for an idea?
  
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01-05-2018, 09:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BmoreMoney View Post
Ok yall, here it goes. The first thing may or may not have been dome before, but of done as its in my mind I think not only would it be really cool but add tremendously to the playability of the table. The second thing is way outside of the box but his try to imagine it of it worked correctly.

First thing is some type of diffused light that rums the entire length and width of the table under the rails. Ot would be completely diffused so there should be absolutely no distraction like a blinking light from a pinball machine or the neon lights from the bar. I'd guess some type of soft white would work the best but with what they are doing with leds the color combinations are almost endless and could make some very cool looks.

Now; lol, the second idear. They now male paint that conducts and reacts to electricity. The paint can literally" light " itself. Brightness is controlled by voltage applied. So we have all seem the beds of tables lit before bit that was always using some type of Plexiglas or the like. Obviously you can.not play on a surface like that. I'm thinking using whatever cloth you normally wod.but applying several thin coats of this paint. Now you have a playable surface but now every square inch is lit up. No more shadows, no more overhead lights etc. How awesome would this be!
Awww hell, just paint the whole table with glow in the dark florescent paint and call it done. Turn the lights on to charge it up, shut the lights off and play pool, or just turn the lights off and put on your night vision goggles.
  
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01-05-2018, 11:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by realkingcobra View Post
What's really sad, is the manufacturing industry designers design, then manufacture pool tables for sale, they get sold, then someone has to set them up. I guarantee you, if the idoits that designed some of these pool tables was required to set them up as well....they'd have taken 5 more looks at their design trying to figure out....how to perform the task of setting up that pool table that they designed.....because that's what installers have to do....figure out how to set up a stupid designed pool table, because the designers don't have to....not their job!!! And, pool tables today would play more consistent if the cushion manufactures knew anything more about their cushions other than just selling them, as even they have no idea at what sub rail thickness, what bevel, what nose height, or even which model of cushions play the best. And we're looking for ideas on how to improve pool tables.....how about the single most important idea of all....how about just making all pool tables play more consistent from one pool table to the next, how about a standard size of pockets, hell, even the cloth manufacures except Simonis today, can't tell you how to install their own brand of cloth correctly ....how's that for an idea?
1. More cooperation between ( Brunswick) designers and mechanics.
Surely you wouldn't say this about Diamond.
( seems like you wouldn't care, being a die-hard diamond fan)

1.5. Cushion manufacturers know their product better. ( debatable)
They do tests. So I'm not sure what you could mean here.

2. Better consistency from table to table ( Brunswick)
Again, I'm sure you wouldn't be talking about Diamond here.

3. Cloth has nothing to do with table design.

Thanks for your input.

Last edited by Mr. Bond; 01-05-2018 at 11:29 PM.
  
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