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Mustardeer
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10-08-2019, 01:01 PM

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Originally Posted by nodeflection View Post
Bring 725 friend and have 500 in hundreds. Say let's play one game for 500 bank last pocket, flash the 5 see if his eyes light up.

I really like this actually. If my friend loses the flip they guy might do like a one pocket break and we’ll be there for half and hour but for 500 why not. I won’t be the first one to flash money though.




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10-08-2019, 01:39 PM

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Originally Posted by Mustardeer View Post
I really like this actually. If my friend loses the flip they guy might do like a one pocket break and weíll be there for half and hour but for 500 why not. I wonít be the first one to flash money though.
Your post and the one you quoted really have me doubting you(or the person you quoted) know anything about gambling.

How are you not going to show money? Are you not going to post? Is your opponent not going to post?

I wish I could watch this disaster unfold, except the part of having to testify in court as a witness when this goes severely sideways.
  
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ShortBusRuss
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10-08-2019, 03:03 PM

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Originally Posted by jasonlaus View Post
I guess you play better than Aranas then....its too bad he doesn't know how to play 8 ball.
Some players rely more on making balls than the intellectual side of the game. There's a reason why every other pro in the world REALLY needed their break to be working when they played Efren.

Do you have a link to a video of that game? I'd love to take a gander and come back with my thoughts..

*Edited*

Well, I went and found this video of Aranas playing last pocket 8 ball, and strictly from the first game, it's pretty darned bad. A few points.

Given the position of the 8 ball.. The natural out pocket is the bottom left, leading from the 11. WAY easier than playing to the upper left pocket, and if I am seeing it correctly, there's no chance of a scratch in the side from that direction, if he gets thin. The 12 ball was always gonna be the problem, as it sits closer to center table, and the 11 ball is in the path of a two rail position to center table. The pattern was to get thick on the 10 and play the 12 ball in the lower left pocket, and then move up table and mop up, transitioning to the 11 ball, most probably from the 14, but any number of patterns got him there from any of the remaining three balls that were uptable.

The rest of that game was okay, but never should have gotten to that point. I am not saying I shoot anywhere as straight as Aranas, but he didn't seem to recognize the danger of that 12, and worked towards the wrong out pocket. Some players have different talents for different games. Last pocket 8 ball rewards a deeper analysis of the layout than most games.

Game 2 in the video? The pattern he got out on, was the same he should have used in the first game to get out first try.

Last edited by ShortBusRuss; 10-08-2019 at 03:39 PM.
  
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nodeflection
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10-08-2019, 03:10 PM

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Originally Posted by jasonlaus View Post
Your post and the one you quoted really have me doubting you(or the person you quoted) know anything about gambling.

How are you not going to show money? Are you not going to post? Is your opponent not going to post?

I wish I could watch this disaster unfold, except the part of having to testify in court as a witness when this goes severely sideways.
Whats your answer gambling guru almighty? It's a silly proposition all the way around. What is the disaster proof plan you have?

People with 10k to move around wont look twice at 500.
  
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10-08-2019, 03:16 PM

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Originally Posted by ShortBusRuss View Post
Some players rely more on making balls than the intellectual side of the game. There's a reason why every other pro in the world REALLY needed their break to be working when they played Efren.

Do you have a link to a video of that game? I'd love to take a gander and come back with my thoughts..
Just sayin.....somehow I doubt a guy that is #16 FR in the world doesn't have a mental game.

If I remember correctly you are not helpless on the table, but you take a guy who is inferior in every way to a top pro except for the fact he knows the game on the highest level and you've got yourself more than you bargained for.

I think somebody posted the video yesterday, I watched it live, maybe I missed something.
  
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10-08-2019, 03:26 PM

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Originally Posted by nodeflection View Post
Whats your answer gambling guru almighty? It's a silly proposition all the way around. What is the disaster proof plan you have?

People with 10k to move around wont look twice at 500.
It's your business, do what you want.

Nobody that gambles or knows anything about it would be on a forum full of people looking to make a big score talking about it.

How do you know your opponent isn't on here? If he is, you just told them your buddy's speed - 725. How do you think that will work out for you?

Again, you are playing a game neither you or your friend know how to play. You are also playing somebody you don't know.

How do you know you are walking into a gun in your face?

I'm not trying to be an ass, you just haven't thought this through and I dont believe(from your own posts) that you know what to do .

Again, good luck and be as safe as you can.
  
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ShortBusRuss
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10-08-2019, 03:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonlaus View Post
Just sayin.....somehow I doubt a guy that is #16 FR in the world doesn't have a mental game.

If I remember correctly you are not helpless on the table, but you take a guy who is inferior in every way to a top pro except for the fact he knows the game on the highest level and you've got yourself more than you bargained for.

I think somebody posted the video yesterday, I watched it live, maybe I missed something.
Oh, no doubt, no doubt. Just saying, from the video, I would feel 100% comfortable matching up with Aranas using Fargorate Fairmatch. That dude was 654, and getting 9-6. At 580, if Arans wanted to try to give me, say 9-4, I'd empty out. Against Orcollo, I'd not bet over about $500, lol, and I'd feel like I'd have to shoot very well to win that. Orcollo will put packages together, last pocket or not.

And I was not referring to his "mental" game. More like his "thinking" game. As in, what to do when the table is a mess, and you have to reduce the game down to the salient important points, i.e. "Without some hero shot, the 8 ball only goes comfortably to the corner from a setup off the 5 into the same corner. I don't have an out.... Let me play this ball in such a way to get to the 13 on this particular angle to bump the 13 in front of the 5, and freeze the cue ball to the rail."

That sorta stuff. Aranas has proven to be a very fine shotmaker, with good position, as compared to the pro field, but not in Efren, Orcollo, or Pagulayan's league...
  
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middle man - 10-08-2019, 03:54 PM

The middle man has pretty much already told the story. He didn't ask you for a little piece of the winnings for steering. He said the guy would play for twenty a game without consulting him. A person that won't play for less than five thousand a set is cool with twenty a game?? The middle man knows that without asking when you are the fish they are trying to get into 5K action?

There is fixing to be an exchange: When the man with the money meets the man with experience the man that had the money leaves with experience and the man that had the experience to begin with leaves with the money.

I don't believe it is going to work out but try to get your 725 in for two-fifty or less for a race to five or twenty or fifty a game even better. I agree with somebody else that the odds are about one in a thousand that you have had a pilgrim with a pile of money dumped in your lap. Why isn't your middle man after the other guy's money himself?

If you are gonna flash a little money go with a St Louis bankroll. A few hundreds on the outside, maybe in the middle so they show when you unfold it then if you need smaller bills fish around in another pocket to come up with some twenties looking like you had broken a hundred earlier. Even if he thinks most of that roll might be one dollar bills he can't be sure. Don't give anyone a chance to bump the roll while you are holding it.

Rating a person's speed is more art than science. Watch how he is missing balls or missing shape. Most importantly, watch how he moves around the table. If he is playing a Fargo 600 game but moving around the table like Gene Kelly, be afraid, be very afraid!

Not my first rodeo or the first of other people posting in this thread. All indications so far are that this is a set-up and you are the one they are fishing for. If the mystery player will play cheap and stalls for small money you may be able to take them for a couple three hundred or so while they are throwing chum in the water. One of my fondest memories is of a night I did that to a would be hustler.

Notice that nobody in this thread has told you to man up and wade in there for five or ten grand. You need to be toting fifteen minimum to play for five, preferably at least twenty-five. I don't think it likely but the real score they are after may not be on the table. If you or your 725 friend play for five gees or more you may want to have a couple three people backing your play too. I see way too much potential downside to playing somebody with no last name for real money.

(I had a second thought before posting: If he will play for twenty or fifty a game you might as well get in the box. If he still hopes to get you in a 5G game he can't win cheap. You will be shooting fish in a barrel!)

Hu
  
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nodeflection
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10-08-2019, 03:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonlaus View Post
It's your business, do what you want.

Nobody that gambles or knows anything about it would be on a forum full of people looking to make a big score talking about it.

How do you know your opponent isn't on here? If he is, you just told them your buddy's speed - 725. How do you think that will work out for you?

Again, you are playing a game neither you or your friend know how to play. You are also playing somebody you don't know.

How do you know you are walking into a gun in your face?

I'm not trying to be an ass, you just haven't thought this through and I dont believe(from your own posts) that you know what to do .

Again, good luck and be as safe as you can.
Hahah nice. OK man. I don't know anyone involved here. Obviously would be easier in person to make an educated guess on what the real situation is and iron out 20 more details for a large bet. Worried about random action getting killed online is not a concern for this post. I play last pocket pretty strong. Guns shoot people who are out of line. I know plenty, keep bringing up Aranas like it matters, you said things contradicting the assertions. Trying to gauge a guy calling out a 10k game is what we are talking about. The chance has to be small that it is a real bet. My advice is good to see if he is for real at all and shouldn't cause any problems. No way there is one way to go about this that is %100 safe.
  
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highkarate
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10-08-2019, 04:00 PM

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Originally Posted by ShortBusRuss View Post
Oh, no doubt, no doubt. Just saying, from the video, I would feel 100% comfortable matching up with Aranas using Fargorate Fairmatch. That dude was 654, and getting 9-6. At 580, if Arans wanted to try to give me, say 9-4, I'd empty out. Against Orcollo, I'd not bet over about $500, lol, and I'd feel like I'd have to shoot very well to win that. Orcollo will put packages together, last pocket or not.
That's not the video he was referring to. He was talking about a video (i've seen it i think it's on roy's fb) of Aranas getting completely out-moved playing last pocket on a bar table against a guy who just soft broke and moved. Aranas got drilled because he tried to get out every rack and it just wasn't doable. Last pocket is a total gaffe game when played like this, and even though you think you can just run out on his nonsense, it slowly sets in that you can't. Or at least not a high enough % of the time to win the set.

There was a random eastern European guy who came into our pool hall, where there are some legitimately world class one pocket players, and beat people out of thousands playing last pocket 8 ball. Mika was hanging around at the time, and when Mika saw him he goes "oh yeah, that guy goes all over Europe beating pros at last pocket 8 ball. I wouldn't play him that game" So that should tell you something right there.


thats just like, your opinion man
  
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Mustardeer
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10-08-2019, 04:08 PM

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Originally Posted by jasonlaus View Post
Your post and the one you quoted really have me doubting you(or the person you quoted) know anything about gambling.

How are you not going to show money? Are you not going to post? Is your opponent not going to post?

I wish I could watch this disaster unfold, except the part of having to testify in court as a witness when this goes severely sideways.
Of course gonna post meant Iím not gonna be that guy flashing bills five seconds into meeting someone. Iím a white guy who wears a lot of gold, Iím walking into a getto spot where everyone is Hispanic. No offense just being honest. They know I have money. Iíve never had anyone not take me seriously. Once itís time to post weíll post but I donít need to flash nothing to chat him up.




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Mustardeer
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10-08-2019, 04:29 PM

Some great advice and some that donít get it.
I hung out with ďthe middle manĒ several times and showed him a few things on the table and he often asked me about where the tournaments are at. He cant beat me and he knows he cant beat me. We stopped hanging out because of the language barrier. If he was a bad guy I would have known by now. Not worried about him reading like I said he barey speaks English and seriously doubt heís heard of azb. The only reason Iím even considering this is because he told me itís a safe situation. If I was the fish he would have said that guy is easy money. But he told me the guy whoís looking for action is unbelievable.

Iíll check him out and see if heíll play one pocket or 10 ball on a 9 footer. If it must be barbox I rather play Saratoga. Last pocket doesnt scare me if itís a race. Just watched the Aranas hill hill game. He made 3 big mistakes in one game. Cant expect to win like that. Happens. Aranas is a great player, thereís a reason his Fargo is 804. Burrito was not scared of him and got lucky Aranas played too aggressive.




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10-08-2019, 05:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Mustardeer View Post
Some great advice and some that donít get it.
I hung out with ďthe middle manĒ several times and showed him a few things on the table and he often asked me about where the tournaments are at. He cant beat me and he knows he cant beat me. We stopped hanging out because of the language barrier. If he was a bad guy I would have known by now. Not worried about him reading like I said he barey speaks English and seriously doubt heís heard of azb. The only reason Iím even considering this is because he told me itís a safe situation. If I was the fish he would have said that guy is easy money. But he told me the guy whoís looking for action is unbelievable.

Iíll check him out and see if heíll play one pocket or 10 ball on a 9 footer. If it must be barbox I rather play Saratoga. Last pocket doesnt scare me if itís a race. Just watched the Aranas hill hill game. He made 3 big mistakes in one game. Cant expect to win like that. Happens. Aranas is a great player, thereís a reason his Fargo is 804. Burrito was not scared of him and got lucky Aranas played too aggressive.
Did you say earlier that yiur friend was a 725 player? If that's correct and you player better than he does, well, you are at a minimum a low tier pro speed player.

I play people that are in the 700ish to 740ish range and if I miss, I lose.

If your above 725 this entire thread was not needed.....

Am i misreading something?

Jeff


I knew a fellow that thought he was a good boxer because he was in a position to befriend a lot of "professional boxers". It cost him azzwhippens till he realized he wasn't what he thought/wished he was.

Do you know anyone like the "wannabe" boxer in the pool world?
  
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10-08-2019, 05:21 PM

I don't know anything about pool gambling but I know you don't see a gambler's $5000 game by watching him play for $20.

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10-08-2019, 05:51 PM

Get in there for $20 a game and see if you can win some walking around money. If he beats you, then at least he didn't take you for 5 grand, and you know not to mess with that guy. If you beat him, you have some money in your pocket, and you can weigh your options from there. If you lose a $100+, call it a pool lesson. If you win $100+, you covered your expenses and had a good time.


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