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9 Ball Fan
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Considering Mosconi and Fats.... - 05-31-2019, 10:17 PM

Mosconi seems to have embodied one image and approach to the game, while Fats was the polar opposite. Which do you think had more of an impact, on the current state of the game?
  
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05-31-2019, 10:21 PM

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Originally Posted by 9 Ball Fan View Post
Mosconi seems to have embodied one image and approach to the game, while Fats was the polar opposite. Which do you think had more of an impact, on the current state of the game?
FWIW, neither comes to mind.

Most of today's recreational players probably couldn't tell you one fact about either of them. Except for maybe hearing their names somewhere.

The Black Widow probably would be better known to them.
  
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06-01-2019, 05:52 AM

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Originally Posted by 9 Ball Fan View Post
Mosconi seems to have embodied one image and approach to the game, while Fats was the polar opposite. Which do you think had more of an impact, on the current state of the game?

Well . . . why?
  
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06-01-2019, 06:37 AM

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Originally Posted by 9 Ball Fan View Post
Mosconi seems to have embodied one image and approach to the game, while Fats was the polar opposite. Which do you think had more of an impact, on the current state of the game?
Neither one. Few, if any, young/current players know or give a rats' ass about players that far back. Color of Money MAYBE but not these two.
  
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06-01-2019, 06:41 AM

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Neither one. Few, if any, young/current players know or give a rats' ass about players that far back. Color of Money MAYBE but not these two.
And it's sad, really... SO MANY great stories comprising the history of this gorgeous game. That really define it in countless ways. And all stories of things that will never see the light of day except AS stories. It's history. And it deserves a prominent place at the table.

Too true and really sad, Gar.




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06-01-2019, 07:01 AM

I think Mosconi is a Babe Ruth kind of figure. Babe brought a level of sustained dominance to baseball that most would have believed impossible. In the 1920's, year after year, he won the home run crown and his teams usually won the World Series. It seems unlikely that baseball will ever again see anyone dominate to the same extent. Mosconi's sustained dominance over his peers in the 1940's and 1950's is similarly otherwordly, and few of us anticipate seeing anyone outclassing opponents with such regularity anytime soon.

Contrastingly, Minnesota Fats, hustler extraordinaire, was an entertainer, and it was not through his great excellence as a player that he is most remembered but for his trash talking and story telling and genuine humor. His name was better known that Mosconi's, something Willie was none too pleased about.

The legacy of each is still felt. It's worth noting that some of their best work may have been done together. Charlie Ursitti, Mosconi's manager, was the guy who conceived the Fats/Mosconi Challenge and brought the idea to ABC Sports. This series of matches in the mid-1970's was aired on "ABC Wide World of Sports" and it brought a lot of positive attention to pool.

To say Fats and Mosconi belong on the Mount Rushmore of pool isn't giving them enough credit. They belong on pool's Mount Olympus!
  
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No link - 06-01-2019, 07:20 AM

For better or worse there is no real link between Willie or Fats and today's game. The game is a lot more like Mosconi's style, no real flash, go in and take care of business. Fat's could light up a room now but he would starve to death gambling today. When he tried to get somebody to play him the game he wanted they would all be sitting on their hands.

Both great in their own right but forgotten. Fats could play quite a bit better than most realized because he wasn't going to play better than just good enough. Willie showed his stuff in formal competition. Willie also inspired many people's games including mine. While some tried to match Fats' style in the pool room, I can't remember anyone saying they tried to copy his game.

Other than the Color of Money upspurt, I think pool largely died with the coming of widespread television. Some people with nothing to do after work rambled over to the pool hall before widespread TV. After the mid-sixties they veged out in front of the TV. I think the coming of TV and the lack of interest in pool for years is what broke the link between Willie, Fats, and today's pool.

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06-03-2019, 11:26 AM

My son loves watching videos of Minnesota fats. He turns on videos of old matches before bed to help put him to sleep.
  
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06-03-2019, 01:05 PM

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Well . . . why?
LMAO.... what a burn...
  
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06-03-2019, 01:15 PM

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Originally Posted by 9 Ball Fan View Post
Mosconi seems to have embodied one image and approach to the game, while Fats was the polar opposite. Which do you think had more of an impact, on the current state of the game?
Ralph Greenleaf, Willie Hoppe, Walter Lindrum, Maurice Vigneaux, Alex Higgins, Steve Davis, Joe Davis, Raymond Ceulemans, Torbjorn Blomdahl, Michael Phelan, Irving Crane, Jimmy Caras, Mosconi, Joe Balsis, Arther Cranfield, Capt. Francois Mingaud, Johnny Irish, the English guy who first put chalk on the tip, and Alfredo de Oro... among many others
  
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06-03-2019, 01:29 PM

SlickRick...Actually, that was Mingaud as well. He invented the leather tip, while in jail in France, and was the first person to put chalk (calcium carbonate) on it, to make things like masse' happen. Many thought that he was some kind of black magic person for a while.

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the English guy who first put chalk on the tip


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06-03-2019, 10:55 PM

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SlickRick...Actually, that was Mingaud as well. He invented the leather tip, while in jail in France, and was the first person to put chalk (calcium carbonate) on it, to make things like masse' happen. Many thought that he was some kind of black magic person for a while.

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If I remembered correctly, it was Jack Carr who put chalk on the tip. Mingaud made the leather in the tip.
  
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06-04-2019, 12:56 AM

Mingaud also experimented and became accomplished in Masse’, Side-Spin, Draw-shots, and other Shots using Spin, that amazed nearly everyone, and seemed Magical or possessed by a Devil!
  
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06-04-2019, 06:28 AM

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Neither one. Few, if any, young/current players know or give a rats' ass about players that far back. Color of Money MAYBE but not these two.
Definitely correct!
Let those dinosaurs stay buried and back off on trying to 'dig them up'. There seems to be a twisted sentimental reverence for these old players which they simply do not deserve.
Time moves on and few people care who robbed so-and-so at Bensingers or who shot down "high rolling Louie" at the big tournament in 1965.
  
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06-04-2019, 06:49 AM

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Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
Definitely correct!
Let those dinosaurs stay buried and back off on trying to 'dig them up'. There seems to be a twisted sentimental reverence for these old players which they simply do not deserve.
Time moves on and few people care who robbed so-and-so at Bensingers or who shot down "high rolling Louie" at the big tournament in 1965.
Yet it's sad people like you who craps on the players of the past and the rich history of billiards...
  
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