Cue "draw-ability" vs balance?

S

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I asked this in another post where it got buried in discussion of wood..

Has there been any testing or is there an opinion as to whether LD characteristics affect the ease or difficulty of draw? LD tends to bias the mass more towards the butt. Is this good, bad, or no effect? Conversely, does a forward balanced cue draw better or no effect?

Question would consider "multiple" cues in which the tip & shaft diameters were the same, same materials and same type tips, only the balance point changed.

Thanks for any information.

smt
 
cueman

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Forward balance does seem to draw better. But some suggest rear balance shoots the cue ball straighter.
 
whammo57

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
most players say that a forward balanced cue gets better draw and a rear weighted cue gets better follow....................

Kim
 
Canadian cue

Canadian cue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The first cue I had that I could realy draw the cue ball realy well with was a late 80's Meucci gamble. The next cue I purchased was a early 90's Heubler. I found the Meucci easier to get good draw and when I compare the two I would say the big factor was shafts. The Meucci had a very aggressive taper and was realy whippy. The Heublers shaft was quite stiff in comparison. Although some may disagree Bob was one of the first to explore low deflection shafts he just approached the problem from a different angle. So if I was asked to define what gave my Meucci cue that good draw I would say it was that first 12" of shaft. The thin taper in combination with a springy ferrule material( for a lack of a better term). My Meucci was also quite heavy at 20.5 oz. and rear biased.
 
Mcues

Mcues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Individual stroke can change what is ordinarily expected from a cue; forward or rear balance.

Some things are just not simple.

Mario
 
S

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the insights, guys.

Mario - very few practices involving ergonomics with kinesthetics modified by psychology is simple or we would all be pro sportsmen in multiple disciplines. :smile:

Right around 1998 to 2001, several commercial cuemakers established that low mass at the tip end of a cue, combined with a "whippy" shaft gave lower deflection characteristics to the cue ball, than similar cues with more mass at the tip and stiffer shafts. In 2001, physicists at the Argonne National Labs Billiards club put theoretical foundations under what the cuemakers had already proven. with a paper "All you ever wanted to know about cue ball squirt but were afraid to ask".

AFAIK, no one yet has proven that this makes all players shoot better. :D

Nonetheless, it seems reasonable to wonder (question) how/if pure LD considerations are part of a virtuous circle that improves other desirable characteristics of cue performance; or if it ends up causing any trade-offs, specifically in this other area of importance to most players.

From input here, it sounds like a "flexible" shaft with low end mass combined in a cue that does not get the balance point too far butt-ward could be good? A cue constructed under "pure" LD considerations would end up getting the balance point as far rearward as possible, but that does not seem to "feel" desirable to most players.

Again, thanks for your experiences and information.

smt
 
Bumlak

Bumlak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
whammo57 said:
most players say that a forward balanced cue gets better draw and a rear weighted cue gets better follow....................

Kim
Click to expand...

To this day, I still am of the thought that it has more to do with a solid stroke and good follow through along with putting the grip pressure in the back two fingers. I will say that forward balance does seem to help with consistency in my stroke.
 
Bumlak

Bumlak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good point Joey LOL. I think it's just more of stroke dynamics thing than anything else. A forward balance cue will tend to rest more "tip down" IMHO. I hit the cue ball very low on draw shots and with a ton of spin on any off-center hit (oddly enough I also use a hard to extra hard tip.) The grip pressure "trick" makes a LOT more of a difference to me and I've had several other players try it with excellent results.
 
S

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I will say that forward balance does seem to help with consistency in my stroke.
Click to expand...

(bold added above) That right there was worth asking the question, to me.

Not that it totally rules out any physical characteristics, yet.

So far, all things within good practical limits, does this summary work?:
1.) "whippy" shaft is probably good for LD & "easier" draw.
2.) low end mass is good for LD, "unknown" effect on draw.
3.) User input does not "really" affect squirt User input is probably most if not all of draw performance.
4.) Use a sensible approach to attaining 1+2 for optimal LD, but put the balance point where the user feels most comfortable & confident in their stroke.

:smile:
smt
 
Bumlak

Bumlak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mcues said:
Individual stroke can change what is ordinarily expected from a cue; forward or rear balance.

Some things are just not simple.

Mario
Click to expand...

I would agree 100%. And as noted by several other prominent makers, the perception seems to be more powerful than the actual science has thus far proven out. Call it a "placebo effect" for pool. I honestly can't remember who showed me all those years ago about moving the grip pressure for follow, center and draw. It was specific to bank pool at that time so I want to say it was either Buddy Hall or Shannon Daulton. They were pretty frequent visitors to Chattanooga back in the 80's.

The concept, as it was explained to me was as follows:

Follow would use the grip pressure in the first two fingers of the hand, Grip pressure here puts the wrist into it's most forward natural position and locks it there. That gives the stroke a very stiff impact and since the wrist is locked, the follow through stays high on the ball with little to no "dip."

Center would use grip pressure in the middle two fingers putting the wrist in a neutral position. This allows the wrist break down somewhat at the end point of the follow through giving a slightly downward angle. This SHOULD allow the cue ball to have slightly more skid for a longer distance.

Draw would use grip pressure in the back two fingers allowing a full break down of the wrist, extending follow through and adding considerable downward angle to the stroke.

I'm not a scientist. I'm not a mathematician. My degree is in music for goodness sakes. But....all that said, it's worked for me for years and it's worked for everyone I've shown to varying degrees.
 
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