New power for old Porpers

carguy · Jul 6, 2013

I was looking for a motor for a Taig type lathe I'm building and I found this. It's way too big for a Taig but it fit my Porper perfectly.

http://stores.ebay.com/CuTex-Sewing-Store?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

It's listed as "sewing machine electric servo motor, adjustable speed" down the page a little...

These guys sell an 550W industrial sewing machine motor that is just the deal to soup up a Porper B lathe. I just put one on mine and if it's power you want for core drilling or other heavy duty applications, this is it. This bad boy has the torque you always wanted.

Installation is very simple and super neat: it mounts on top of the machine instead if inside it. Built in mount and belt tensioner. Fantastic speed control...goes down to a crawl with eye popping torque. Top speed, 3800RPM.

I got my belt from an industrial sewing machine store but they are available on line.
You can cut the stock tray top on the lathe to clear the belt or make a new top; I made a new one from a Delrin cutting board.

The sewing machine belt is wider than the stock one but it works OK so far on the stock pulley. Basically, you just remove the stock belt from the stock motor, mount the new motor up top (3 bolts), put the belt on and go. You have to invent a "throttle" to operate the lever that originally went to the speed control pedal.

I also lowered the motor on mine a bit by cutting and re-drilling the motor mounting ears (10 minute task)
I cannot imagine a better upgrade for a Porper B. Check it out

Edit: I forgot the best part. $130, shipped.

Also, the reverse switch is on the back and hard to operate. And easy to replace and re-position, I'll bet. Later.

Robin Snyder

whammo57 · Jul 7, 2013

carguy said:
I was looking for a motor for a Taig type lathe I'm building and I found this. It's way too big for a Taig but it fit my Porper perfectly.

http://stores.ebay.com/CuTex-Sewing-Store?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

It's listed as "sewing machine servo motor, adjustable speed" down the page a little...

These guys sell an 550W industrial sewing machine motor that is just the deal to soup up a Porper B lathe. I just put one on mine and if it's power you want for core drilling or other heavy duty applications, this is it. This bad boy has the torque you always wanted.

Installation is very simple and super neat: it mounts on top of the machine instead if inside it. Built in mount and belt tensioner. Fantastic speed control...goes down to a crawl with eye popping torque. Top speed, 3800RPM.

I got my belt from an industrial sewing machine store but they are available on line.
You can cut the stock tray top on the lathe to clear the belt or make a new top; I made a new one from a Delrin cutting board.

The sewing machine belt is wider than the stock one but it works OK so far on the stock pulley. Basically, you just remove the stock belt from the stock motor, mount the new motor up top (3 bolts), put the belt on and go. You have to invent a "throttle" to operate the lever that originally went to the speed control pedal.

I also lowered the motor on mine a bit by cutting and re-drilling the motor mounting ears (10 minute task)
I cannot imagine a better upgrade for a Porper B. Check it out

Edit: I forgot the best part. $130, shipped.

Also, the reverse switch it on the back and hard to operate. And easy to replace and re-position, I'll bet. Later.

Robin Snyder

That has a clutch and other stuff that you would need to cobb up to get it to work.

Get this one................... http://www.pennstateind.com/store/TCLVSKIT.html

I have 3 of them............ they work fine, lots of power, everything you need is there.

Kim

GBCues · Jul 7, 2013

whammo57 said:
That has a clutch and other stuff that you would need to cobb up to get it to work.

Get this one................... http://www.pennstateind.com/store/TCLVSKIT.html

I have 3 of them............ they work fine, lots of power, everything you need is there.

Kim

Kim,
Do you bore with a gun drill using the Penn State? It's rated at 1/2 H.P. where as the one Robin references is rated at 3/4 H.P. - yeah I know ratings are often over-rated - but I've been following this thread as I realize that the motor I currently have on my cue lathe probably isn't going to be strong enough for a .750" gun drill.
Just wondering.
Thanks for any feedback guys,
Gary

carguy · Jul 7, 2013

whammo57 said:
That has a clutch and other stuff that you would need to cobb up to get it to work.

Get this one................... http://www.pennstateind.com/store/TCLVSKIT.html

I have 3 of them............ they work fine, lots of power, everything you need is there.

Kim

Hi Kim-

Did you read my post?

The title of the thread was "New power for old Porpers".

Do you suggest I put a Penn State motor in a Porper lathe?
If you managed to I'll guess it would be less powerful than the stock Porper motor, which is excellent to begin with. The stock controller on the Porper is pretty bullet proof and although I've heard of failures, Penn State controllers seem to be famous for them.

The motor I drew attention to doesn't have a clutch. It's made to replace clutch-type motors on Industrial sewing machines. They mention that in the ad.

I didn't take the time to mention this motor because it's a common motor like the Penn State people use on Taig type lathes. I'm glad they work for you. Good little motor I hear. They have been discussed to death here.
This is something new.

I mentioned it very specifically because it is ridiculously easily to adapt to a PORPER lathe and because it has more power than anything I have seen before for a lathe like this.
The installation is absolute cake. I spent more time driving across town for the belt than I did for the rest if the installation.

This motor has 50% more power than the Penn State. It's huge.
It would not be a good thing to mount on a Taig type lathe in my opinion.

The motor proper, excluding the controller, the pulley and the mechanical brake assembly on one end, is roughly 8" long and 3 1/2" in diameter. It's so big it could never fit inside the lathe where the stock one lives. It has to mount externally, on top.

The RPM available is higher than I need (3800 RPM), Right now, running about 1:1, it has vastly more power than this lathe has ever had before. I plan to gear it down to somewhere around 2:1 with a pulley change on the motor. The torque available should be fantastic.

Robin Snyder

conetip · Jul 7, 2013

carguy said:
I was looking for a motor for a Taig type lathe I'm building and I found this. It's way too big for a Taig but it fit my Porper perfectly.

http://stores.ebay.com/CuTex-Sewing-Store?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

It's listed as "sewing machine electric servo motor, adjustable speed" down the page a little...

These guys sell an 550W industrial sewing machine motor that is just the deal to soup up a Porper B lathe. I just put one on mine and if it's power you want for core drilling or other heavy duty applications, this is it. This bad boy has the torque you always wanted.

Installation is very simple and super neat: it mounts on top of the machine instead if inside it. Built in mount and belt tensioner. Fantastic speed control...goes down to a crawl with eye popping torque. Top speed, 3800RPM.

I got my belt from an industrial sewing machine store but they are available on line.
You can cut the stock tray top on the lathe to clear the belt or make a new top; I made a new one from a Delrin cutting board.

The sewing machine belt is wider than the stock one but it works OK so far on the stock pulley. Basically, you just remove the stock belt from the stock motor, mount the new motor up top (3 bolts), put the belt on and go. You have to invent a "throttle" to operate the lever that originally went to the speed control pedal.

I also lowered the motor on mine a bit by cutting and re-drilling the motor mounting ears (10 minute task)
I cannot imagine a better upgrade for a Porper B. Check it out

Edit: I forgot the best part. $130, shipped.

Also, the reverse switch it on the back and hard to operate. And easy to replace and re-position, I'll bet. Later.

Robin Snyder

Thanks for posting this. I looked at those last year before going the 3phase and an Inverter route.
I could not get any info from the outfit selling them out here, different brand but the same concept sewing motors.I wanted to know how long the motor could run continuously for.They did not know and said it was only made for short burts of power and then needed some seconds of rest time.
They wanted what I thought was too much for them, about $600 at the time, but it did come with a foot peddle that had reverse built into the peddle.
Does it show any signs of over heating at all?
Thanks, Neil

whammo57 · Jul 8, 2013

GBCues said:
Kim,
Do you bore with a gun drill using the Penn State? It's rated at 1/2 H.P. where as the one Robin references is rated at 3/4 H.P. - yeah I know ratings are often over-rated - but I've been following this thread as I realize that the motor I currently have on my cue lathe probably isn't going to be strong enough for a .750" gun drill.
Just wondering.
Thanks for any feedback guys,
Gary

Yes I do bore with a gun drill but I have a 1/2 hp AC motor for that . The DC motor will keep kicking out its breaker if I bore with it.

Kim

carguy · Jul 8, 2013

Hi Neil-
No overheating so far and I don't expect any, but I'll keep you posted. I just completed this motor swap and so far I've bored 2 core holes, each 30" long. The motor had no problem with it at all and did not get hot. There seems to be an abundance of power.

The low price was certainly attractive to me, but the easy mounting and high power were the main points of interest.

I can't imagine why a 3/4 HP motor would run hot or labor while doing a job previously done with a motor 2/3 it's size. As I said, so far I have nothing negative to report. I do want to change the pulley and gear it down 2:1. I think I'll like it even better then.

If I want even more torque, and I simply cannot imagine why I would, I'll just gear it down more. For a Taig type setup, I wonder if a jackshaft for more speed reduction (and more torque multiplication) would not be useful for heavy duty jobs like coring while using smaller motors. Has anyone done this?

Robin Snyder

Robin Snyder

conetip · Jul 8, 2013

My motors are the 4pole 1400 or so rpm.
Geared so top rpm is about 1200 rpm at 60 hz.

carguy · Jul 8, 2013

Neil-
That speed sounds just right. The only time I might want more speed than that is possibly for polishing, but now I do that differently so it's a moot point.

I don't have any proper machine tools, just light duty cue-specific stuff (Porper, Unique) so I never went the VFD route. If I had a "real" lathe, a VFD would be my first purchase.

I presume your motors are permanent magnet DC motors?

Robin Snyder

carguy · Jul 8, 2013

Well, I got the smallest pulley I could find for this motor and now I have about 1.6:1. I'd like to gear this down much more. A top spindle speed of 1500-2000 RPM would be nice. So I need a larger pulley on the spindle. This will be harder to come by because of the very large ID needed...I think I have to make one.

Edit...So now I have the opportunity to make a spindle pulley that fits the new, much bigger belt correctly instead of having the big new belt riding in the half as wide original pulley in true cave man mechanic style.

And I need to get these spindle bearings changed! And I have work to do!!
Perhaps tomorrow...

Until something blows up, I have to give this motor conversion a passing grade.

Robin Snyder

carguy · Jul 9, 2013

Help!

I want to post pictures of this cool motor swap I did but my computer is not recognizing my camera's card reader. I have a good quality 5 megapixtel photo on my cave man era phone but have no cable to get them onto my computer. If someone could PM me their phone number I could send the photo and you could post it.

It's really cool.

Robin Snyder

carguy · Jul 10, 2013

Picture!

Ryan was good enough to post a photo of this motor swap for me.

Robin Snyder

ratcues · Jul 10, 2013

Here is the pic so people don't have to go back and forth.

conetip · Jul 10, 2013

Thanks Ryan.
My motors are 220v 3phase

ddcuerepair · Jul 10, 2013

WOW that thing is a horse sitting on top.
Looks real good.
Did you wire it into the Porper switch or on it's own supply?

carguy · Jul 10, 2013

ddcuerepair said:
WOW that thing is a horse sitting on top.
Looks real good.
Did you wire it into the Porper switch or on it's own supply?

Huge, Isn't it.:smile:
One of the cool things about the installation is that it's practically plug and play; you don't have to touch any of the original Porper wiring, etc., just slip off the belt, slip on the new one and go.
The new motor has an off/on switch and fuse in little box which you can mount anywhere...mine's just out of the frame in the center top, double stick foam taped to the top. The reverse switch is hidden in the back and I'll eventually replace/relocate it.

Robin Snyder

carguy · Jul 10, 2013

***This is the same info I posted in my other thread in Ask The Cuemaker, which is about overhauling my Porper spindle bearings, etc. I'm just trying to keep the appropriate info in the appropriate thread.

The vertical rod on the right needs to be threaded on it's lower section for a nut. This rod, which comes with the motor, goes to the speed control pedal on the original sewing machine application, which uses the motor upside down from what's shown here.
I didn't have the die I need handy so I did my testing cave man style, using a piece of wood to prop open the throttle. The knob in the center is a secondary speed control used in the original application to set the maximum speed at any given throttle opening.

The rubber mount bushings are installed upside down to provide a solid mount instead.

The white mounting pad is a Delrin cutting board. It I had a piece of suitable metal handy I would have used it.

The original pulley gave about 1:1 to the spindle which worked, but was geared to tall, so I went to about 1.6:1 with the smallest pulley I could find fast. Although it has lots of torque geared as it is, with all those revs available (3800), gearing it down will make it even more powerful. I really need to make a larger spindle pulley.

So far, it does not stay cool when in operation. It stays COLD.

Understand that this is NOT a tested design; it was tossed together and will be refined and tested much more, but so far it seems very promising.

Robin Snyder

chuckpilegis · Jul 10, 2013

http://www.mcmaster.com/#6245k6/=nkg27f

Is your pulley smaller than this

carguy · Jul 10, 2013

chuckpilegis said:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#6245k6/=nkg27f

Is your pulley smaller than this

Chuck- Thanks for the input. I welcome all bright ideas!

Unfortunately, they have only one pulley that is smaller than what I have so I ordered it, and one more that really isn't the right size for the belt but shows promise, which I also ordered.

The trouble with using too small a drive pulley is that the smaller they get, the less load they will carry since they have not very much belt length on the pulley surface, however since the present slightly larger pulley is doing OK so far with no tendency to slip so I think that one will be OK.

One problem is the 15mm shaft on the motor. They don't have them for that size.
Fortunately, there is a bushing to bring it up from 15mm to 19mm (3/4") which is a common size.

I'm a real torque hog though: no such thing as too much, so I want to gear it way down.
Having said that, if I do nothing more than what I have at this stage, it's WAY more powerful than the original setup. You should see it melt through Blackwood!

I still think I'll need a larger driven pulley on the spindle to get the gearing I want. I'll see what happens when I get the new pulleys.

Robin Snyder

conetip · Jul 10, 2013

You could always just turn down the existing to a smaller diameter if it is solid enough, or just get some ali bar and make one.
Fairly easy to make, might just take time.
Neil

New power for old Porpers

AzB Silver Member

Kim Walker

Damn, still .002 TIR!

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

Kim Walker

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

No yodeling, please.

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member