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philly
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New Rails - 10-16-2020, 10:33 AM

Thinking about replacing the rails on my table.
It is a 9 foot GCIII, 4 1/2 inch diamond cut pockets with Simonis.

What would be a good replacement and why?
What is the approximate cost for the rails only without installation?
Appreciate all responses in advance.


Pool may not build character but it certainly will reveal it.

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Last edited by philly; 10-16-2020 at 10:37 AM.
  
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bradsh98
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10-16-2020, 10:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by philly View Post
Thinking about replacing the rails on my table.
It is a 9 foot GCIII, 4 1/2 inch diamond cut pockets with Simonis.

What would be a good replacement and why?
What is the approximate cost for the rails only without installation?
Appreciate all responses in advance.
Are you looking to replace the 'rails', or the 'cushions'?

For rail replacement, you have very limited options. The best option is Chambers Billiard Company - Jerimy Chambers
Alternatively, you might be able to get a set of replacement rails directly from Brunswick.

For replacement cushions, you have many options:

Brunswick Superspeed cushions are a great option, though the installation can be more time-consuming than some other options. I believe they are around $125/set

MBS cushions (from Championship Billiards) are an economically priced option that play excellent. They are also easy to install. I believe they are around $60/set

Diamond (black) cushions are similar in price to Brunswick Superspeed. They are easy to install and play nicely. However, there have been some recent durability concerns. I believe they are around $120/set

Artemis Intercontinental 66 cushions are a very expensive gum rubber cushion. They are the same cushions that are installed on 9' Diamond tables. Some like the way that they play, some hate the way that they play. I believe they are around $350/set


Personally, I prefer Brunswick Superspeed or MBS. Both seem to play about the same.


Geoff Bradshaw
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philly
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10-16-2020, 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsh98 View Post
Are you looking to replace the 'rails', or the 'cushions'?

For rail replacement, you have very limited options. The best option is Chambers Billiard Company - Jerimy Chambers
Alternatively, you might be able to get a set of replacement rails directly from Brunswick.

For replacement cushions, you have many options:

Brunswick Superspeed cushions are a great option, though the installation can be more time-consuming than some other options. I believe they are around $125/set

MBS cushions (from Championship Billiards) are an economically priced option that play excellent. They are also easy to install. I believe they are around $60/set

Diamond (black) cushions are similar in price to Brunswick Superspeed. They are easy to install and play nicely. However, there have been some recent durability concerns. I believe they are around $120/set

Artemis Intercontinental 66 cushions are a very expensive gum rubber cushion. They are the same cushions that are installed on 9' Diamond tables. Some like the way that they play, some hate the way that they play. I believe they are around $350/set


Personally, I prefer Brunswick Superspeed or MBS. Both seem to play about the same.
Thanks very much for the input.
Much appreciated.
I did mean cushions.
Will replace the cloth also at the same time.
I have Superspeeds on it now.
Pretty much thinking of tuning the table up and possibly closing the pockets 1/4 inch also.


Pool may not build character but it certainly will reveal it.

"Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis" Unencumbered By The Thought Process

How do you feel? Fast and loose, man.
  
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10-16-2020, 04:01 PM

Always helpful answers. Thanks for the time you devote to this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsh98 View Post
Are you looking to replace the 'rails', or the 'cushions'?

For rail replacement, you have very limited options. The best option is Chambers Billiard Company - Jerimy Chambers
Alternatively, you might be able to get a set of replacement rails directly from Brunswick.

For replacement cushions, you have many options:

Brunswick Superspeed cushions are a great option, though the installation can be more time-consuming than some other options. I believe they are around $125/set

MBS cushions (from Championship Billiards) are an economically priced option that play excellent. They are also easy to install. I believe they are around $60/set

Diamond (black) cushions are similar in price to Brunswick Superspeed. They are easy to install and play nicely. However, there have been some recent durability concerns. I believe they are around $120/set

Artemis Intercontinental 66 cushions are a very expensive gum rubber cushion. They are the same cushions that are installed on 9' Diamond tables. Some like the way that they play, some hate the way that they play. I believe they are around $350/set


Personally, I prefer Brunswick Superspeed or MBS. Both seem to play about the same.
  
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rexus31
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10-17-2020, 06:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by philly View Post
Pretty much thinking of tuning the table up and possibly closing the pockets 1/4 inch also.
This will be more involved if you have it done properly. Wood needs to be added to the subrail and the pocket profile recut. This usually runs between $1,000 and $1,500 for the rail work, rubber and cloth.


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philly
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10-17-2020, 06:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexus31 View Post
This will be more involved if you have it done properly. Wood needs to be added to the subrail and the pocket profile recut. This usually runs between $1,000 and $1,500 for the rail work, rubber and cloth.
Thanks
I really enjoy a table that plays well.
It's worth it to me.
I have a go to mechanic that I use.
We have played many many matches against each other in tournaments and
have a mutually friendly relationship and I am happy with the work he has done on my table.
I play all of the games including 14.1.
4 1/2 inch is tough enough playing 14.1.
I play a lot of one pocket too.
4 1/4 would be great for one pocket.
I am torn.
Thanks for all of your suggestions.
Much appreciated.


Pool may not build character but it certainly will reveal it.

"Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis" Unencumbered By The Thought Process

How do you feel? Fast and loose, man.
  
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rexus31
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10-17-2020, 08:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by philly View Post
Thanks
I really enjoy a table that plays well.
It's worth it to me.
I have a go to mechanic that I use.
We have played many many matches against each other in tournaments and
have a mutually friendly relationship and I am happy with the work he has done on my table.
I play all of the games including 14.1.
4 1/2 inch is tough enough playing 14.1.
I play a lot of one pocket too.
4 1/4 would be great for one pocket.
I am torn.
Thanks for all of your suggestions.
Much appreciated.
I went with 4.125" on my GCI. It plays tough but fair.





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10-17-2020, 11:26 AM

4 and 3/8" corners on my GC IV. Done by Mark Gregory. Plays great. Wouldn't change it at all. Superspeed cushions, 860HR.
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10-17-2020, 02:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bignick31985 View Post
4 and 3/8" corners on my GC IV. Done by Mark Gregory. Plays great. Wouldn't change it at all. Superspeed cushions, 860HR.
You have the best there is so no need to change nothing.
  
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10-19-2020, 08:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by olgoat View Post
Always helpful answers. Thanks for the time you devote to this forum.
Thank you for the kind words.


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10-19-2020, 12:42 PM

I'm guessing mine are ripe for replacement:

  
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bradsh98
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10-20-2020, 08:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lgherb View Post
I'm guessing mine are ripe for replacement:
Not necessarily.. While you do have the original Monarch Superspeeds, they may actually be decent.

The biggest issue that I have seen with these old cushions is that they tend to stain the cloth. One year after installation, you will likely notice that the rail cloth will have a brownish stain, along the length of the cushions.

For what it's worth, I had a friend who used to wipe down the old Monarch Superspeed cushions with glycol based brake fluid, prior to every recover. I never saw the tables myself, but he claimed that he never noticed any staining.


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10-20-2020, 11:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsh98 View Post
Not necessarily.. While you do have the original Monarch Superspeeds, they may actually be decent.

The biggest issue that I have seen with these old cushions is that they tend to stain the cloth. One year after installation, you will likely notice that the rail cloth will have a brownish stain, along the length of the cushions.

For what it's worth, I had a friend who used to wipe down the old Monarch Superspeed cushions with glycol based brake fluid, prior to every recover. I never saw the tables myself, but he claimed that he never noticed any staining.
So is there an easy way to test the action on cushions?

Does the glycol based brake fluid wipe down provide any restorative value in terms of replacing lost oils tat may have leached out over time?

Last question for now...I've read on the site that when replacing the 'Monarch Superspeed' cushions with the current generation of Brunswick Superspeed cushions that the profile is slightly different and would require the wood they are adhered to to be slightly resurfaced to accommodate for the difference in the profile.

Is there a good description (or better yet a technical drawing) that explains or illustrates the difference and/or any scope of work required?

Having built a house by hand myself, rebuilt auto and marine engines in the past, and renovated my kitchen and basement by myself I was thinking I'd replace the cushions and hire a mechanic to reassemble and re-cloth the table this time.

  
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10-20-2020, 06:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bignick31985 View Post
4 and 3/8" corners on my GC IV. Done by Mark Gregory. Plays great. Wouldn't change it at all. Superspeed cushions, 860HR.
That looks like 4 1/2 to me. It looks great. How do you like the Arcos2?
  
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bradsh98
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10-21-2020, 03:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lgherb View Post
So is there an easy way to test the action on cushions?

Does the glycol based brake fluid wipe down provide any restorative value in terms of replacing lost oils tat may have leached out over time?

Last question for now...I've read on the site that when replacing the 'Monarch Superspeed' cushions with the current generation of Brunswick Superspeed cushions that the profile is slightly different and would require the wood they are adhered to to be slightly resurfaced to accommodate for the difference in the profile.

Is there a good description (or better yet a technical drawing) that explains or illustrates the difference and/or any scope of work required?

Having built a house by hand myself, rebuilt auto and marine engines in the past, and renovated my kitchen and basement by myself I was thinking I'd replace the cushions and hire a mechanic to reassemble and re-cloth the table this time.

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time to respond right now..
But, check out this thread for a bit more information.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=490206

When I have a bit more time, I will provide dimensioned drawings, to show more detail.


Geoff Bradshaw
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