Lessons

lfigueroa said:

Better yet, spend your money on a professional who knows how to share their insights, knowledge, and wisdom from years competing at the highest level.

I've taken lessons from Dallas West, Ray Martin, and "Steve "Cookie Monster" Cook. There wasn't a single handout, a projector, a laser, or doughnut on the table between the all of them. But what they taught and shared with me was some of the best knowledge I've gained in 50 years of playing pool.

Lou Figueroa

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I totally concur with Lou. I've taken 3 lessons in my life. The first was with Max Eberle. That was almost 20 years ago. The second was with Jimmy Reid (Maybe 15 years ago). This lesson was exceptional. He gave me more information than I could digest but the experience improved my game 2 balls, minimum. The last was with Mike Sigel when he was the house pro in Maryland years back. Just the experience of playing with him in person, watching and listening to how he played, made decisions, used English, etc was a great experience.

I'm sure there are a lot of good instructors out there who don't play at a professional level, but "some" are generally short sighted in their methodology or approach to instruction, and their experience is limited, unfortunately, by their natural ability. People don't like to hear this about pool - and some of these instructors won't agree, but there is such a thing as natural talent in pool. We all can't be pro pool players, golfers, or baseball players.

There is a guy where I play who started less than a year ago. I saw him a week ago and he's running a rack of 9 balls very consistently. I mean, he looks really good on the table. He has a natural stroke and great eye. All self-taught. He's a good guy from a rough area of St Louis who loves to play pool when he's not working. He uses some cheapo carbon fiber cues (no, not REVO LOL) that he likes because he can keep them in his car, LOL, and he has gotten decent pretty quickly. It's neat to see.

If you love playing pool and can learn from someone who has world class ability, experience, insight, and knowledge - why would you pass that up? And what the heck is a few hundred bucks to do so? Can a golfer get a lesson from Tiger Woods for a few hundred?

Lessons are only worth the time you are willing to put in.Like golf if you dont hit 1000,s of range balls forget it. If you are not going to practice what your taught (hitting balls) forget about it. Nobody can give you that secret little tip that makes you play.It takes work!Sometimes an instructor dont find that little thing that clicks with you but another does.It doesnt make one better they are just right for you.Today there is so much available that wasnt in the 60,s n 70,s.Then it was play me some watch what i do.Bend over and give me your wallet.Tor and Zero-x ,Dr Dave, and many others are great ways to learn if you really want it.Nice New Year resolution.

lfigueroa said:

Better yet, spend your money on a professional who knows how to share their insights, knowledge, and wisdom from years competing at the highest level.

I've taken lessons from Dallas West, Ray Martin, and "Steve "Cookie Monster" Cook. There wasn't a single handout, a projector, a laser, or doughnut on the table between the all of them. But what they taught and shared with me was some of the best knowledge I've gained in 50 years of playing pool.

Lou Figueroa

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I love the story of a guy that took a lesson from an English snooker/pool player that we all know. Cost him $500 for the morning. Asking him what he learned and all he would say was; "Wow, she can make the balls and get shape". Yes, but what did you learn? "Wow, she can make the balls and get shape". Guess it was worth the $500 to meet her. NOT a teaching professional. Now, he's back to someone that can help him for a hell of a lot less money. Had to learn the hard way.

Stew boo said:

The Lesson is limited to 8 people and the whole session is 4 hours I believe. I guess 250 sounds a little steep to me but for someone with a lot of money it may be worth having 2 world class players giving a lesson.

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$250 total for 4 hours, limited to 8 players, sounds very reasonable for 2 players at this level. I'm guessing they may not even fill up with 8 players, meaning it's even more valuable for you and more likely you'll get more 1-on-1 instruction. Karen Corr will be excellent for helping you with your fundamentals, and one of our regulars took a couple hour lesson from Earl a few years ago and said it was very helpful.

The problem with these crash courses is that your brain can't take in but so much info at one time. If you really like the teaching style of either one of them, and you live in that area where they are located, I'd suggest working out an arrangement for like a 60 or 90 minute session once every 2-3 weeks over a number of months. I think it would be far more beneficial for achieving lasting game improvement results. It likely wouldn't cost you more than $100 or $150 tops, if you're willing to go to their poolroom at a time that works out for their schedule.

I think the dynamic of group lessons is tough, unless the players are of similar skill levels.

From instructor's POV, hard to talk to 4 people in a constructive manner when one cant shoot a stop shot 10/10x, one cant use inside english and one beat you the last time you played.

A few years back, I did a four hour session with Earl & Johnny: right about the same cost. I somewhat looked at it, if I could pick up a few key points, that would be money well spent.

I attended a presentation by Schmidt about 5 years ago. I think 4 or 5 people ponied up the 200 bucks. After four hours my head was swimming. There was some great info but it was a lot to digest. All in all I would do it again, but I would take better notes if not record it.

Who thinks a group lesson is worth $.02? Especially to a beginner or banger trying to learn mechanics. I'm going to hi-jack slightly. Took a group golf lesson with 10 people. Told myself if I like golf I'm going to take privates and real fast.
My first pool lesson with a friend. Did not like the way it swayed. Our levels are different...could not address personal needs. Never again. Take lessons with a group...get treated like a group. There is no fine tuning.

Stew boo said:

The Lesson is limited to 8 people and the whole session is 4 hours I believe. I guess 250 sounds a little steep to me but for someone with a lot of money it may be worth having 2 world class players giving a lesson.

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Seems pretty cheap to me to get 4 hours with two top pros sharing time with only 7 others. Can't believe they will work that cheap.

With that said, I think you would probably gain more from a professional instructor rather than a star player. Teaching is an art and you do not have to be a great player to be a great teacher of the game. A good teacher focuses on YOUR game does not just convey what he or she does. Tiger Woods is a better golfer than either Hank Haney or Butch Harmon but they helped him to a better game. If I were going to get lessons I would go to a teaching pro (which I do by the way, for $50 an hour).

But the experience of spending time with Earl and Karen is probably worth the money IMO.

$250 with two Hall of Famer players? Seems worth it to me, but it's your money.

What you learn from a professional champion is invaluable and can't be taught by a non-professional champion. That's not a knock on other instructors. You can learn an amazing amount from stroke instructors, no question. But you can't learn how a champion professional thinks and plays from a non-professional champion or by guessing, hearing feel good sayings, and reading AZBilliard advise (which is often guessing and feel good sayings).

Personally, I've had great lessons from great stroke instructors, and I highly recommend them. But I've also gained the most playing knowledge from touring professionals' clinics (Grady, Nick) or just paying attention to what some of the pros are saying (John Schmidt, CJ, Sigel, Earl).

If you can swing the $250 and have these types of instructional discussions with Earl and Karen, you'll be a leg up on the millions of other players that didn't have this opportunity.

Freddie <~~~ IMO, of cours

bioactive said:

But the experience of spending time with Earl and Karen is probably worth the money IMO.

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Real time reviews would be appreciated (if available)....unless the student has money to burn and wants the experience.

Pool school by Randy and Scott is probably the best group offering available. But they're not in the OP's area.

Dennis Orcullo has given many lessons at my house and typically charges around $250-300 for a two and half to three hour, one-on-one session. He used to do longer sessions (up to four hours) with multiple students (four to six) and charge each one $100-150. The individual lessons seem to be more popular and more instructive for the player. I know the feedback I've received has all been good.

Dennis communicates well with people and most definitely helps them get more out of their game. He has an instinctive eye for what each player needs. Better yet he shows them a positive way to correct flaws in their game, usually with a simple fix somewhere. It's two to three hours well spent.

By the way he will be here on January 13 and has availability that week for anyone who is interested. Just hit me up and we'll see what we can work out. I live in the Los Angeles area.

Both Karen and Earl have had reviews in the Instructional Reviews section.

So, posters might want to go there first before assuming / hinting that neither can teach.

Freddie

Instruction from TWO world champs. Why would you pass up that opportunity?


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bbb said:

in my experience one on one is better than group lessons
see if you could get 1 hour private and see what it would cost
you will have enough after an hour to work on
especially if its more about fundamentals you are after
jmho

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Completely agree on this. One hour can do a world of good. You can learn a great deal in an hour.

r/DCP

Here are my thoughts

There is a couple of way to look at this:

If you have never had a lesson and cannot hit the exact spot on the cue ball you are intending to hit then you probably have stroke flaws or fundamentals that need to be addressed by an instructor that can provide a great video analysis and ways to correct any deficiencies to get you on the right path. You would get less out of group instruction from a pro, the reason I say this is because in group lessons generally the pro is teaching "in front of the cue ball" I.E. position play, strategy ETC. Not being able to hit the cue ball where it need to be hit to execute certain shots can be frustrating for the student because you don't get the desired results most of the time.

If you have had lessons on fundamentals and can hit the cue ball where intended then you will get a lot more benefit because you will get the results in executing certain shots as intended most of the time therefore you will not be frustrated and have a great experience.

The price they are charging is not out of line for something like this.

The hardest part is to put your ego in check and do a true assessment of how well do you really strike the cue ball and decide am I going to get the most bang for my buck.

Prairie dog said:

I love the story of a guy that took a lesson from an English snooker/pool player that we all know. Cost him $500 for the morning. Asking him what he learned and all he would say was; "Wow, she can make the balls and get shape". Yes, but what did you learn? "Wow, she can make the balls and get shape". Guess it was worth the $500 to meet her. NOT a teaching professional. Now, he's back to someone that can help him for a hell of a lot less money. Had to learn the hard way.

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Regardless of who’s doing the teaching, horror stories are easy to come by.

I have a few involving a very well known instructor and some of his students who, post lesson, asked me to help fix what they’d been taught by said well known instructor. But for my money I’ll go with what Ray Martin told me: “If you want to play like a champion, take lessons from a champion.” YMMV.

Lou Figueroa

I took a private lesson from Earl. He charged me $75 and hour. 2 hour minimum.

lfigueroa said:

But for my money I’ll go with what Ray Martin told me: “If you want to play like a champion, take lessons from a champion.” YMMV.

Lou Figueroa

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But, to be fair, how many of Ray's students play like champions? Just curious if there is a list or anything we can review. With that being said, he's a great teacher and folks will learn a lot from him, but "champions"? not so much.

philly said:

I took a private lesson from Earl. He charged me $75 and hour. 2 hour minimum.

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And Nick Varner is $100 an hour. No minimum.