Volleyball and Pro Beach Volleyball (DE all the way).
Single vs double elim differences, my personal experience
- Thread starter hang-the-9
- Start date
Volleyball and Pro Beach Volleyball (DE all the way).
Little League World Series uses the same format as World Cup Soccer.
Good post. The system is defintely flawed. I made a recent post about how it screws up the seeding unless they randomly draw (which many don't): https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=492580
All wrestling events are double elimination. They run their brackets slightly different towards the end though. In wrestling, if you are on the winner's side and you make it to the end (aka hot seat match in pool), this is considered the finals and the winner takes 1st place and the loser takes 2nd place. If you lose prior to the finals (aka hot seat match in pool) you go into the loser's side bracket and have a chance to finish in 3rd place if you win out all of you matches. However, you never have a chance to make it back to the winner's side to challenge the 1st and 2nd place finishers.
I like this format because you never end up having to beat the hot seat winner twice to win.
Example from NCAA Wrestling: https://www.nj.com/rutgers/2019/03/...ps-2019-125-pound-bracket-seeds-matchups.html
Last edited:
I think Volleyball uses a format called pool-play which advances teams into small round robin flights and/or advance into single elimination (depending upon the number of teams).
From Wikipedia:
The tournament is unique in that it features four tiers of competition, alternating between double-elimination brackets and best-of-three series. In fact, throughout the entire 64-team tournament, a team can lose a total of four games and still be crowned champions.
The extreme result with four lost games could look like:
LWWWWW-LWW-LWWWWW-LWW
College World Series has 4 team double elimination brackets. That is interesting.
CaptainBly
Registered
I played in the same tournament, I won my first 3 matches and then lost my 4th and was out. I don't mind the switch to single as we all knew that was the deal. The biggest problem I have, is having 2's in the tournament. In 9 ball beating a 2 who can run out 5 to 6 balls if you leave them is tough. I lost to a 2 that I had beat earlier in the day. I missed position on the nine and played a safety. Left the nine frozen on a rail and the cue ball frozen at the other end. He banked it 18 ft to win the match and knock me out.
I would like to see a minimum of 3 games for 9 ball, 2 is ok in 8-ball but in 9-ball there is to much luck to only need 2 games.
Because it is believed that the dead money will not enter a single-elimination event, and the dead money is required to get the live money to play.
With a lot more added money, I'm pretty sure it would be single elimination, like the World Snooker Championships. Out in the first round of those and you get $13,000. I'm not sure, but I think there is no entry fee.
Well if you were there then it was nice meeting you, even if I did not hehe :smile:
What would happen I wonder if you had all major events limited to 128 or 64 players but you get a stronger average field, instead of more but weaker players. I am guessing the money added should not matter much to how many players there are but rather how much benefit overall the sponsors get from fans. Then you had some events that were for A+ players and under like Joss tour, etc... but US Open and such was for top players only. That may be the beginning of a new pro tour vs just a mess of events with anyone playing.
Obviously, this would be best, but until pool prize money escalates, it won't attract big enough fields. At the US Open tennis last year, first round losers got $54,000. Even if you draw Nadal or Serena, you get a big paycheck.
But an unranked player would have had to win multiple qualifying matches to get to the "first" round, and maybe would have had to win a lottery.
The total prize fund for that event is over $50,000,000 and attendance is over 700,000 (presumably person-sessions).
For now a major reason to have large fields in big pool tournaments is that all the room-nights make the hotel happy. Large fields are not a good thing for events that are supported by broadcasting, as demonstrated by most of the Matchroom events.
As a tourney director and LO, there are several parameters (excluding fees/payouts) that define your tourney, some of which you have control over and some that you cannot control.
1. Overall time length of tourney
2. Number of tables available
3. Bracket structure
4. Race lengths (includes handicapping)
5. Field size
Generally speaking, #3 and #4 are inversely related, once #1, #2, and #5 are set. Expanding the bracket to full DE requires a shortening of race lengths and vice versa.
This is a dilemma I always face in league tourneys. Many players want longer races, and many players want the loss cushion that full DE provides. I always strive to fulfill my players' wishes, so at the start of each league season, at the captains meeting, we discuss the various formats available for the tourneys, and I let the captains decide which format they want....Single elim with long races, double elim with shorter races, or a hybrid with medium races. The fact is that you are never going to please everyone, so it's best to make it a democratic choice so that when the whiners do whine, you can say "This is what the league voted on".
1. Overall time length of tourney
2. Number of tables available
3. Bracket structure
4. Race lengths (includes handicapping)
5. Field size
Generally speaking, #3 and #4 are inversely related, once #1, #2, and #5 are set. Expanding the bracket to full DE requires a shortening of race lengths and vice versa.
This is a dilemma I always face in league tourneys. Many players want longer races, and many players want the loss cushion that full DE provides. I always strive to fulfill my players' wishes, so at the start of each league season, at the captains meeting, we discuss the various formats available for the tourneys, and I let the captains decide which format they want....Single elim with long races, double elim with shorter races, or a hybrid with medium races. The fact is that you are never going to please everyone, so it's best to make it a democratic choice so that when the whiners do whine, you can say "This is what the league voted on".