How much does it cost?

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well -

Sometimes you can learn from a joke.

What does a large pizza and pool player have in common?

Neither one can feed a family of four.

But on the other hand, I look at my friend Skyler Woodward. I started playing pool with him when he was 14-15 year old. Strong player, but not a monster player until later, after he had "seasoned" a little on the road. Is he making a ton of money? No, but he has played pool all over the world, represented the USA a couple time for the Mosconi Cup, won numerous titles.

Some folks aren't about the money. I think Skyler is one of those, he just loves to play.

We all leave this world the same way we came in, with nothing.

JMO

Ken
 

jcpoolgod

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
becoming better

Sometimes you can learn from a joke.

What does a large pizza and pool player have in common?

Neither one can feed a family of four.

But on the other hand, I look at my friend Skyler Woodward. I started playing pool with him when he was 14-15 year old. Strong player, but not a monster player until later, after he had "seasoned" a little on the road. Is he making a ton of money? No, but he has played pool all over the world, represented the USA a couple time for the Mosconi Cup, won numerous titles.

Some folks aren't about the money. I think Skyler is one of those, he just loves to play.

We all leave this world the same way we came in, with nothing.

JMO

Ken

Thanks Ken, See this is my goal. beyond the money involved with expenses. I am more concerned with what this will do to my game. Playing against these types of players will make me better and teach me a lot. I like skyler, not only is he a great shooter, he seems like a cool guy. It would be cool to be friends with players like this. See the good news about my job is its 2 weeks on 2 weeks off. And i earn 40 hours a week on my off days. So while Im out shooting I still am earning a little bit of money regardless of my playing expenses/winnings.

My ultimate goal doesn't have too much to do with earning money but more to do with being a better version of myself. And getting better at a game I love. This plan will allow me to take myself out of a preconceived "box" of how good I am. And let me see how good I really am. I am not a world class player yet. I'm like a 15 yo skyler haha...
 

jcpoolgod

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
optimism

All in all it would be sweet to become better at this game that we all love.

At this point in time I have $500 in credit card payments a month. Just to get back to zero. I also spend $500 a month on rent. If I can pay down these cards and get a duplex with maybe a roommate on my half. That could be a thousand dollar swing or more.

So $1000+ more dollars a month will go a long way towards playing 2 weeks out of the month. Plus I have a car payment with full coverage insurance which once I have that paid off will be another 400$ subtracted from my monthly expenses. So if I illiminate All these expenses and Add a few hundred income from a roommate I can basically do this plan at a Push.
 

Poodle of Doom

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All in all it would be sweet to become better at this game that we all love.

At this point in time I have $500 in credit card payments a month. Just to get back to zero. I also spend $500 a month on rent. If I can pay down these cards and get a duplex with maybe a roommate on my half. That could be a thousand dollar swing or more.

So $1000+ more dollars a month will go a long way towards playing 2 weeks out of the month. Plus I have a car payment with full coverage insurance which once I have that paid off will be another 400$ subtracted from my monthly expenses. So if I illiminate All these expenses and Add a few hundred income from a roommate I can basically do this plan at a Push.

So, you're basically buying into this dream on credit? Because that's how the depression happened.
 

logical

Loose Rack
Silver Member
How much does it cost for you guys to live the pool player life, going from tournament to tournament. Is there anyone out here that can give me an accurate or estimated costs of life on road? I want to try this out.

Any other things you can help me out with? Tips for saving money? etc
It all depends on how you want to travel. A nice hotel in most areas is $150 or sleep in your car at a rest stop. The car option is free in summer but you may need to start it to run the heater in winter. So lodging is somewhere between zero and $45,000. I suspect food, transportation and income have the same basic range of variation.

It sounds like a pretty expensive fantasy camp to me. For that kind of money you can probably be a cowboy or race car driver or maybe a goat herder.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...It sounds like a pretty expensive fantasy camp to me. For that kind of money you can probably be a cowboy or race car driver or maybe a goat herder.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

For much less money than that, I was able to take the time off work to practice, travel to, and win the 33rd Annual World Sarcasm Championship, held in Rio de Jeneiro back in 1996.

Dont let these naysayers dissuade you, I found out that sometimes, it really is worth chasing the pipe dream! :thumbup:
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Consider pulling a small camper. Weekly and monthly rates are very affordable all over the country.
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
800 Fargo rating. That's the skill level needed to make a profit travelling on the tournament trail.

650 or lower Fargo rating. There will be 10 players your speed or more and a few quite a bit better in every event you play. No chance.

650-700 Fargo rating. You will on average break even on local tournaments including expenses. Unfortunately there won't be soft local tournaments 7 days a week so you will still be losing thousands a month on the road.

700-750 Fargo rating. Welcome to 'no man's land'. You will face insurmountable handicaps in local tournaments or be denied entry altogether with the growing number that say "Fargorate < 650 only". And in the larger regional tournaments with bigger prize pools you will be facing a number of top players making it very difficult to get to the final four where the calcutta and lion's share of the prize money is. Finding tournaments with a positive expectation will be difficult and probably only possible occasionally, again, not nearly enough to support a daily existence on the road.

750-800. First of all, this is a very hard level to reach. Many players strive their entire life to play this well and very few do. But if you make it, congratulations! Now you have a good chance to show a profit on strong regional tournaments. If you travel domestically in the US and play full time, possibly picking up a sponsor or two, and play your heart out, you now have a legitimate shot to cover your expenses. Most years you won't show a profit, but there is always a chance you'll catch lightning in a bottle and win a major and end up +10-20K for the year.

Gambling. No. Internet, economy, Fargorate, and lack of local players that are dead money donating. If you have a rich backer that likes bad investments and no sense of loyalty you might break even on a few matches and essentially win a few thousand from your backer before they lose interest. But nothing reliable, sustainable, or scalable.


So you really have two options:

1. Bet your life that you can be one of 10-20 players historically that can eclipse 800 Fargorate, be broke, homeless, and hungry for a few decades, and end up at 55 with fading eyesight and stamina and facing further decades of hardship with nothing to show for it.

2. Get an education, a good job, and earn money by contributing to society. From there you can buy a home with room for a pool table, practice in your basement while listening to music, and travel to tournaments and match up with players as much as you want to (even if you're a slight loser overall).

Personally when I was 18 I was playing great but I saw the road ahead and opted for option two. I have managed to climb my Fargorate to 740 playing at home, regionally, and at a few big tournaments a year. I've had some strong results on all fronts at times, but nothing that would come close to replacing my income. I just got done with a nice practice session, ran 78 balls which feels good but is a long way from the hundreds I need to feel great. And I'm rearranging things so I can try to hit 4 majors a year in addition to the weekend tournaments I can drive to. Best of all, I have three wonderful children that love me even when I dog it. And my 11 year old daughter loves to play with me and has a better stroke than I do. This, sir, is the NUTS.
 

us820

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
800 Fargo rating. That's the skill level needed to make a profit travelling on the tournament trail.

650 or lower Fargo rating. There will be 10 players your speed or more and a few quite a bit better in every event you play. No chance.

650-700 Fargo rating. You will on average break even on local tournaments including expenses. Unfortunately there won't be soft local tournaments 7 days a week so you will still be losing thousands a month on the road.

700-750 Fargo rating. Welcome to 'no man's land'. You will face insurmountable handicaps in local tournaments or be denied entry altogether with the growing number that say "Fargorate < 650 only". And in the larger regional tournaments with bigger prize pools you will be facing a number of top players making it very difficult to get to the final four where the calcutta and lion's share of the prize money is. Finding tournaments with a positive expectation will be difficult and probably only possible occasionally, again, not nearly enough to support a daily existence on the road.

750-800. First of all, this is a very hard level to reach. Many players strive their entire life to play this well and very few do. But if you make it, congratulations! Now you have a good chance to show a profit on strong regional tournaments. If you travel domestically in the US and play full time, possibly picking up a sponsor or two, and play your heart out, you now have a legitimate shot to cover your expenses. Most years you won't show a profit, but there is always a chance you'll catch lightning in a bottle and win a major and end up +10-20K for the year.

Gambling. No. Internet, economy, Fargorate, and lack of local players that are dead money donating. If you have a rich backer that likes bad investments and no sense of loyalty you might break even on a few matches and essentially win a few thousand from your backer before they lose interest. But nothing reliable, sustainable, or scalable.


So you really have two options:

1. Bet your life that you can be one of 10-20 players historically that can eclipse 800 Fargorate, be broke, homeless, and hungry for a few decades, and end up at 55 with fading eyesight and stamina and facing further decades of hardship with nothing to show for it.

2. Get an education, a good job, and earn money by contributing to society. From there you can buy a home with room for a pool table, practice in your basement while listening to music, and travel to tournaments and match up with players as much as you want to (even if you're a slight loser overall).

Personally when I was 18 I was playing great but I saw the road ahead and opted for option two. I have managed to climb my Fargorate to 740 playing at home, regionally, and at a few big tournaments a year. I've had some strong results on all fronts at times, but nothing that would come close to replacing my income. I just got done with a nice practice session, ran 78 balls which feels good but is a long way from the hundreds I need to feel great. And I'm rearranging things so I can try to hit 4 majors a year in addition to the weekend tournaments I can drive to. Best of all, I have three wonderful children that love me even when I dog it. And my 11 year old daughter loves to play with me and has a better stroke than I do. This, sir, is the NUTS.

Great post
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Well, if you're going to be out and about anyways ;)

Why not sell some products and become a dealer. You can make individuals sales to other players, or score bigger and sign up a few pool rooms. You get dealer prices from me for TZAR Tips, Magic Chalk, and TIP CLIPZ. Plus, whatever you don't sell, I will buy back from you, including the shipping costs.

Heck, an extra couple hundo a month can't hurt ;)

and yes, chase the dream. If I could play pro baseball, even in the minor leagues, for a day, I'd write a check for $10K right now. Instead, I play in an over 50 league with a bunch of other guys who never made it, and in most cases, never had a shot to begin with ;)

It's the journey,and not always about the destination :thumbup:
 

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How much does it cost for you guys to live the pool player life, going from tournament to tournament. Is there anyone out here that can give me an accurate or estimated costs of life on road? I want to try this out.

Any other things you can help me out with? Tips for saving money? etc

If you want to do it. Do it.

Don't let other people's fear keep you from doing something you want to.

There are ways to do this on the cheap. I don't know where you live but iirc you used to live in Cali and then Washington state right? Sorry if I have you confused with someone else.

Immersion is the best. I drove around in my 1st get tundra (2001) with a topper on the back and a real twin mattress. I'd stay at national park campgrounds in between cities for $15-20/night - they have showers and restrooms. The real mattress is key. RV Mattresses/air mattresses/camping mattresses suck. I heard recently though that national parks may have raised their camping rates. In that case I would just stay at state park or BLM campgrounds.

Then spend money on a real hotel room when you are playing and need the sleep/shower etc...

Stay sober so you can drive after a night of playing. It's pretty cool to play until 2-2:30 in the am at some bar and have a pocket full of $5 bills and then just get in the truck and head out of town to the next camp spot, get there, watch the sun come up and then sleep for a few hours. Make sure you bring a fishing pole :)

You can probably buy a used pickup in good shape with 100K miles fairly cheap and sell it when you are done for minimum loss. It used to be that every tournament you went to had several RVs and trucks with campers in the parking lot because many players used to travel tournament to tournament this way.

In your situation it's completely doable. Areas like Phoenix and Denver have a lot of local weekly tournaments. It might make sense to go somewhere with good action and set up a second base of operations. Then when you're not in the field you can just live there and get in a second local pool scene. This will give you a lot of new players to compete with. Then travel to tournaments from whichever 'home' is closer to the event. If you book flights in advance you can fly anywhere in the country for less than $200.

If I were going to do this I would hit up the west coast swing events that are going on now, the Wyoming Open, the Junior Norris in Texas, The Dave Peonia in Concord, CA and the Rumrunner in Las Vegas for sure. If you can play in a BCA league and get qualified to play in the BCA regional events thats another venue to play in.

If you are a good player and play well for the weekend there are enough amateurs in these tournaments that you can cash if you get a decent draw.

Take the west coast swing events, for example, even though there are top pros there is almost always a tough amateur in the top 4-5 spots. This year Chris McDaniel from Denver is doing well in the West Coast Swing one pocket. A couple years ago local player Jason Williams got in the finals of the 10-ball.

The experience is priceless. It will help your pool game and you'll meet a lot of great pool players - pro and amateur both - that you will run into all over the country. It's a lot of fun to hang out at these tournaments too.

This is definitely a west coast centric post. If you're not in the west finding campgrounds and things might be much harder.
 

jcpoolgod

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Buying memories not money

So, you're basically buying into this dream on credit? Because that's how the depression happened.

No I didn't buy into the dream by using credit. I just racked up my credit cards (15k worth) just by living my life.(but now I'm so anti credit cards) Now my new job I earn 100k a year and I have 6 months off that's why I think I can go out and do this at little expense to me, without breaking the bank and living the poor road player life. Even if this "dream" costs me $1000 a week I will still have 40-50 k left after taxes to pay for life. I am 36 years old and I'll probably never get the chance to do this again. I'm buying memories.
 

jcpoolgod

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've already lost everything. This new job and life on the road has already ruined my relationship now I'm single and free to do it all.
 

jcpoolgod

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you want to do it. Do it.

Don't let other people's fear keep you from doing something you want to.

There are ways to do this on the cheap. I don't know where you live but iirc you used to live in Cali and then Washington state right? Sorry if I have you confused with someone else.

Immersion is the best. I drove around in my 1st get tundra (2001) with a topper on the back and a real twin mattress. I'd stay at national park campgrounds in between cities for $15-20/night - they have showers and restrooms. The real mattress is key. RV Mattresses/air mattresses/camping mattresses suck. I heard recently though that national parks may have raised their camping rates. In that case I would just stay at state park or BLM campgrounds.

Then spend money on a real hotel room when you are playing and need the sleep/shower etc...

Stay sober so you can drive after a night of playing. It's pretty cool to play until 2-2:30 in the am at some bar and have a pocket full of $5 bills and then just get in the truck and head out of town to the next camp spot, get there, watch the sun come up and then sleep for a few hours. Make sure you bring a fishing pole :)

You can probably buy a used pickup in good shape with 100K miles fairly cheap and sell it when you are done for minimum loss. It used to be that every tournament you went to had several RVs and trucks with campers in the parking lot because many players used to travel tournament to tournament this way.

In your situation it's completely doable. Areas like Phoenix and Denver have a lot of local weekly tournaments. It might make sense to go somewhere with good action and set up a second base of operations. Then when you're not in the field you can just live there and get in a second local pool scene. This will give you a lot of new players to compete with. Then travel to tournaments from whichever 'home' is closer to the event. If you book flights in advance you can fly anywhere in the country for less than $200.

If I were going to do this I would hit up the west coast swing events that are going on now, the Wyoming Open, the Junior Norris in Texas, The Dave Peonia in Concord, CA and the Rumrunner in Las Vegas for sure. If you can play in a BCA league and get qualified to play in the BCA regional events thats another venue to play in.

If you are a good player and play well for the weekend there are enough amateurs in these tournaments that you can cash if you get a decent draw.

Take the west coast swing events, for example, even though there are top pros there is almost always a tough amateur in the top 4-5 spots. This year Chris McDaniel from Denver is doing well in the West Coast Swing one pocket. A couple years ago local player Jason Williams got in the finals of the 10-ball.

The experience is priceless. It will help your pool game and you'll meet a lot of great pool players - pro and amateur both - that you will run into all over the country. It's a lot of fun to hang out at these tournaments too.

This is definitely a west coast centric post. If you're not in the west finding campgrounds and things might be much harder.

Great insite! This sounds like a ton of fun. I currently live in Idaho. But I work in ND.
 

Poodle of Doom

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No I didn't buy into the dream by using credit. I just racked up my credit cards (15k worth) just by living my life.(but now I'm so anti credit cards) Now my new job I earn 100k a year and I have 6 months off that's why I think I can go out and do this at little expense to me, without breaking the bank and living the poor road player life. Even if this "dream" costs me $1000 a week I will still have 40-50 k left after taxes to pay for life. I am 36 years old and I'll probably never get the chance to do this again. I'm buying memories.

You said you were going to pay off the credit cards. From there you made it sound like you were going to use that to finance this whole deal. Don't do that. Pay it off, sure. Use it to finance this? No deal.
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you can find a guy or two that are already doing it, you can share expenses and it gets pretty reasonable to get by. Plus , the safety in numbers is a nice feeling. Just don't get with any flakes who might get you in prison.
40 years ago, some night managers wouldl let you rent a room for 10 bucks for 5 or 6 hours of sleep and a shower.
They give you a room someone left early from and put you on the list for last with housekeeping. Best time to go in is about 5 to 6 am
Not sure if they still do this but for 20 I would guess someone would.
 

us820

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well the 100k job at 36 changes everything.You have 5-10 years of crisp eyes left.Do it.
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
Well the 100k job at 36 changes everything.You have 5-10 years of crisp eyes left.Do it.

Meh. Hindsight being 20/20, I'd say if he has a 100K job at 36, I'd be dumping 30K a year of it into my 401k. More, if I could afford it. And just play local weekend events.

Pool is kinda dying, and all things being equal, if it IS still alive in 20 years, I'd like to have the money to go and watch pretty much any top tier event in the world I want. Sweating action matches in Manila, having tickets to every day of the finals of the World Snooker Championship finals.

Pool is just one of those things you either have the talent for, or you don't. If you just don't see the edge of the ball crystal clear at 8 1/2 feet, then your skill level is permanently capped. If your muscle memory is not at the level of at least a decent college level athlete, you'll have to practice constantly to stay at a good speed. Some players just don't have a strong adrenaline response to pressure situations, and it's totally a biological thing. These players don't get any waiver in their stroke because their mind is fighting to dampen the effect of adrenaline making their muscles witch during the stroke. Practicing 12 hours a day doesn't change that.

My opinion has changed on this, but in the end, I came to the realization that a person of only modest talent can practice their brains out and throw a scare into a top pro once in a while (I had Scott Frost down 5-0, 6-0 in back-to-back games of One Pocket this year at DCC, dammit!), but to be out there crushing cookies day in and day out, you just have to have it in you from the start. There are actual physiological differences between us and them.

And if you have it, you tend to KNOW you have it, very early on. And even if you DO have more than your average share of talent, I believe if life didn't work out a way for you to put in heavy practice in your 20's, then your average speed tops out at a certain level. (Though your temporary top speed tends to adhere to your innate natural talent level..)

For a working stiff, I just think it's more likely to beat a pro when you got a table at home, and the only way that is gonna happen, is by looking out for one's financial future. I know that OP is not gonna follow my advice, but there it is.And this is from a guy that ran a 5 pack in 9 ball within my first year of playing seriously, ran 80 in snooker sometime within my first year of seeing a snooker table, and has run 7 points in 3 cushion, having never really studied the game, and just working off "seeing" the angles.

I only say that to show.. I actually have quite a bit of natural ability, and found it EXTREMELY difficult to compete effectively at any point where I did not have my own table, and even THEN, it required massive amounts of practice. This may be more due to my lack of muscle memory, though.. Someone who has that more in spades might be able to make more of a go of it.
 
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