Ethics Question about shaft diameter

subdude1974 · Jun 3, 2013

If you are selling a cue, what is the right thing to do? Lets say you have a shaft that at the bottom of the ferrule the diameter is 13mm. But at the tip, it is 12.5mm. Should you make it known that if you want a 13mm shaft you will need a new ferrule or do you just call it a 13mm tip and call it a day? In my mind, if someone tells me 13mm, then the tip should be 13mm. If it was 12.9 I wouldn't sweat it. What say you?

DJordan816 · Jun 3, 2013

I always measure the shaft at the base of the ferrule. If someone wants a 13mm shaft i figure their main concern is that it needs to be 13mm in the "stroking area" so a smaller tip probably wont concern them. However i always put in my threads that the shaft measurements i post are at the base of the ferrule. Im pretty sure 90% of cues have tapered ferrules and are smaller at the tip than where the shaft meets the ferrule, at least thats been my experience.

PaulieB · Jun 3, 2013

A pro taper I would think should be the same at the tip as at the base of the ferrule. If it was a conical taper I would probably report both measurements.

subdude1974 · Jun 3, 2013

I guess I worded it poorly. I am not talking about the shaft taper. I am asking is it ok to say the shaft is 13mm when the tip is say 12.5. Is it ok to not tell the person the ferrule is tapered?

spliced · Jun 3, 2013

I measure the ferrule directly behind the tip and would be pretty unhappy if i thought I was buying a shaft at 13mm and it was 12.5 at the tip.

cueaddicts · Jun 3, 2013

If it differs, I always describe measurements in both areas. It should not. I find it best to over-advertise and give as much info as you can as a seller. Helps in the long run...

poker player · Jun 3, 2013

13 to 12.5 would be a very drastic difference from the top to the bottom of the ferrule, dont think you would ever see that

9Ballr · Jun 3, 2013

PaulieB said:
A pro taper I would think should be the same at the tip as at the base of the ferrule. If it was a conical taper I would probably report both measurements.

Common misconception.
Pro taper does have a steady increase just not as fast as conical, very little in fact.
Measure any pro taper shaft at the ferrule and then again 4-5 inches in and you won't get the same number.

As to the OP's question I would mention both measurements because the taper you describe is much more rapid than any pro taper is.

Ken_4fun · Jun 3, 2013

DJordan816 said:
I always measure the shaft at the base of the ferrule. If someone wants a 13mm shaft i figure their main concern is that it needs to be 13mm in the "stroking area" so a smaller tip probably wont concern them. However i always put in my threads that the shaft measurements i post are at the base of the ferrule. Im pretty sure 90% of cues have tapered ferrules and are smaller at the tip than where the shaft meets the ferrule, at least thats been my experience.

me too.

Ken

8onthebreak · Jun 3, 2013

I'd say that's drastic and should be disclosed

I think almost 20 % change in 1" is drastic wear and I would be upset if I was the buyer, so...yes, I'd disclose it.

Mickey Qualls · Jun 3, 2013

cueaddicts said:
If it differs, I always describes measurements in both areas. It should not. I find it best to over-advertise and give as much info as you can as a seller. Helps in the long run...

^^ This ^^

You don't get charged per letter or word :grin-square:

cueaddicts · Jun 3, 2013

Yes, 12.5 to 13.0mm over the length of the ferrule is pretty *drastic* and should not be there. Improper tip install or ferrule install....or both.

manwon · Jun 3, 2013

subdude1974 said:
If you are selling a cue, what is the right thing to do? Lets say you have a shaft that at the bottom of the ferrule the diameter is 13mm. But at the tip, it is 12.5mm. Should you make it known that if you want a 13mm shaft you will need a new ferrule or do you just call it a 13mm tip and call it a day? In my mind, if someone tells me 13mm, then the tip should be 13mm. If it was 12.9 I wouldn't sweat it. What say you?

Making it known is the only honest way to handle the situation. Currently a cue in this condition is damaged, and it should not be described any other way. I think it would be best to have the ferrule replaced before selling it, that way the problem is no longer a problem at all!!!!!

Just my opinion!!:smile:

BarneyCalip · Jun 3, 2013

Pool Players Don't Lie

Use the right tool for the right measurement you want.
Use a 1st grader ruler.
If it still doesn't measure 13mm, step back a few yards and take another reading.
You will eventually get there.
Pool players have ethics.

3andstop · Jun 3, 2013

If you have to ask this question, then it is of enough concern to disclose.

twal · Jun 3, 2013

Tip measurements should always be where the tip meets the ferrule. Not at the base of the ferrule next to the shaft.
You do that kind of stuff and you are getting the cue sent back to you.

Bob Jewett · Jun 3, 2013

DJordan816 said:
I always measure the shaft at the base of the ferrule. If someone wants a 13mm shaft i figure their main concern is that it needs to be 13mm in the "stroking area" so a smaller tip probably wont concern them. ...

I hope you're kidding. I'd be asking the seller, "Who screwed up the ferrule? Will you replace it or give me a refund?"

There may be a very few players who want that kind of ferrule taper, but it's not the way cues are made. I did end up with a ferrule like that once when the idiot who took over Whitehead and Zimmerman in San Francisco decided to take a chisel to a new tip to finish the side and took off a millimeter of ivory ferrule. That was the last time I ever went in that shop, and I made sure to tell everyone about my experience. They're out of business now, and good riddance.

Bavafongoul · Jun 4, 2013

The Ferrule........

The ferrule should not taper and the shaft wood does taper....a slight variation of .1-.2mm (1/10ths) from the outside circumference measurement of ferrule where it attaches to the tip versus the circumference measurement (mm) at the base of the ferrule where the ferrule and shaft attach is permissible. However, anything more than a difference of .1 - .2mm (1/10ths) really should be disclosed, i.e., revealed, prior to any purchase completion.........IMO & cue buying experience.

subdude1974 · Jun 4, 2013

Took a cue in on trade, that I sent back BTW, that was 12.5 at bottom of ferrule and 12.1 at tip. Not calling anyone out, people will do what they do. I just wanted to see the popular opinion on this matter. Just don't see how someone can impose a $100 fine on you for buying a cue from them. If you don't have a local guy to do the job, between cost of ferrule, tip and shipping you will have another $100 in it. More if you go ivory.

SCCues · Jun 4, 2013

subdude1974 said:
I guess I worded it poorly. I am not talking about the shaft taper. I am asking is it ok to say the shaft is 13mm when the tip is say 12.5. Is it ok to not tell the person the ferrule is tapered?

If I'm the buyer I would want to know that the ferrule has been sanded down at the tip (by a poor tip installer) to a smaller diameter so I wouldn't get a surprise when I receive the cue. If the shaft wood is still full size (13mm) I'd be ok as long as you told me up front since I could replace the ferrule and get it back to full size. A good seller who values their reputation should disclose everything that isn't like the cue was when it was built example dings, dents, scratches, shafts that may have been sanded down or modified. As long as the description states everything for the buyer and he agrees to buy the cue the seller is covered, but when something wasn't explained before the sale then the buyer has a legitament complaint and grounds to ask for a refund if he's not satisfied.

James

Ethics Question about shaft diameter

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