3/8 × 10 versus radial pin opinions

Welder84

Welder84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been playing with 3/8 × 10 for years and am thinking of buying a new cue mainly offered in radial pin. My question is do you think the radial will have very different feel from 3/8 × 10 pin feed back wise? I play with matching shafts and other 3/8 × 10 cues of similar weight and not much adjustment is necessary. I have never had the opportunity to try out the radial pin. Thanks
 
desi2960

desi2960

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hit is subjective

I have used the 3 8 by 10 as my metal pin for 10 years or so, when I started building carbon fiber shafts everyone wanted radial. About 6 months ago I started offering radial on any of my cues. I have a Saturday game at my house and have had different players hit with different cues with the 10 and radial. No one as of yet can tell the difference.
Not very scientific but, if these guys can't tell the difference !!!!!!!!!!
 
C

Catalin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe it had been proven in a blind test that no one can tell what type of joint a cue uses, let alone pin. Basically if you take 10 cues and cover their joints with masking tape, NO ONE will be able to consistently tell which is which.

The hit of a cue comes mostly from the tip and ferrule combo, then the shaft, then the butt and only then the joint. I believe in a different post someone estimated the joint impact on the overall cue to around 4%, the pin itself even less than that.

Julian
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you where to measure and weigh a SS radial pin vs a SS 3/8-10 Modified pin, you would find that the weight is allmost identical and the diameter is very close. Radial is .312", 3/8-10 Modified is .308".
I dont think you will notice any difference. Both pins are available in SS, Alu, G10, brass and Ti.
3/8-10 Modified is also avaialble in bronze.
 
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Texas Carom Club

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
pin is just to connect shaft to butt, means nothing more

the one advantage is it would be a little less likely to cross thread with radial
 
whammo57

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
Texas Carom Club said:
pin is just to connect shaft to butt, means nothing more

the one advantage is it would be a little less likely to cross thread with radial
Click to expand...

Shoot a few racks with a SS 3/8-10 pin then change the pin to a G10 3/8-10.............. you will change your mind on that statement.................

Kim
 
C

Catalin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
whammo57 said:
Shoot a few racks with a SS 3/8-10 pin then change the pin to a G10 3/8-10.............. you will change your mind on that statement.................

Kim
Click to expand...
Rather than making a mysterious statement that is very hard to verify, maybe you could elaborate on what would change and how it's quantifiable. The obvious change is one in weight / balance, the material itself is not important I would think.

Julian
 
desi2960

desi2960

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Kim,

If i made 10 sneakys, put steel in 5, g10 in 5. How much cash you bet that you could hit a few balls with each, and pick which had what pin?
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
Catalin said:
The obvious change is one in weight / balance, the material itself is not important I would think.
Click to expand...

Actually it is. Anybody who uses sanding arbors for finish work can attest to how much flex G10 has. You can literally tighten the cue noticeably farther than you can with a metal pin. The cue doesn't actually get tighter, but rather the pin twists from flex. I personally can very much tell the difference in hit between G10 and aluminum if used on the same cue. I know because I removed a G10 pin to replace with aluminum. The cue never seemed like I could get it tight enough, which made me leery & nervous. The aluminum pin not only allowed the shaft to lock down solid, but also hit & felt more solid. I won't use G10.
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
qbilder said:
Actually it is. Anybody who uses sanding arbors for finish work can attest to how much flex G10 has. You can literally tighten the cue noticeably farther than you can with a metal pin. The cue doesn't actually get tighter, but rather the pin twists from flex. I personally can very much tell the difference in hit between G10 and aluminum if used on the same cue. I know because I removed a G10 pin to replace with aluminum. The cue never seemed like I could get it tight enough, which made me leery & nervous. The aluminum pin not only allowed the shaft to lock down solid, but also hit & felt more solid. I won't use G10.
Click to expand...

Different strokes for different folks.
I won't use aluminum because I've seen more than one bend crooked.
G-10 has better "memory" to me.
It would have to break before it gets bent permanently.
I use inserts on them now though.
No risk of losing wood threads.
TW did suggest using 1/8 steel rod on alum screws and I have not tried that.
And FWIW I think G-10 makes for great A-joint stud unless you need the extra weight.
The thing glues like a rough wood.
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
Different strokes for different folks.
I won't use aluminum because I've seen more than one bend crooked.
G-10 has better "memory" to me.
It would have to break before it gets bent permanently.
I use inserts on them now though.
No risk of losing wood threads.
TW did suggest using 1/8 steel rod on alum screws and I have not tried that.
And FWIW I think G-10 makes for great A-joint stud unless you need the extra weight.
The thing glues like a rough wood.
Click to expand...

The flex that you note is precisely what I hate about G10. I want the wood to flex, not the pin. If the pin flexes, the joint face opens, which breaks continuity. No bueno. As for bent pins, that happens from hyper extension due to abuse or severe accident. I don't build my cues to be idiot proof, so that isn't a concern. That said, replacing a bent pin is a 5-minute job with a blow torch. G10 has to be drilled out. Of the 100 or so cues I have made with aluminum pins, I cannot recall one that has been bent. Seeing as I build 80%+ brass pin cues & have only replaced a few due to damage, eventually I will likely have to replace an aluminum. However, as seldom as that job presents itself, it's hardly a deciding factor in material choice. I'm not telling anybody to not use G10. I'm only stating the reasons I won't. Then again, there are a lot of things I do that other cue makers don't and visa versa.
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
qbilder said:
The flex that you note is precisely what I hate about G10. I want the wood to flex, not the pin. If the pin flexes, the joint face opens, which breaks continuity. No bueno. As for bent pins, that happens from hyper extension due to abuse or severe accident. I don't build my cues to be idiot proof, so that isn't a concern. That said, replacing a bent pin is a 5-minute job with a blow torch. G10 has to be drilled out. Of the 100 or so cues I have made with aluminum pins, I cannot recall one that has been bent. Seeing as I build 80%+ brass pin cues & have only replaced a few due to damage, eventually I will likely have to replace an aluminum. However, as seldom as that job presents itself, it's hardly a deciding factor in material choice. I'm not telling anybody to not use G10. I'm only stating the reasons I won't. Then again, there are a lot of things I do that other cue makers don't and visa versa.
Click to expand...



I didn't blow torch the bent aluminum screw in the cue sent to me for repair from Vietnam. I don't blow torch unless I have to. I have no idea what people use as glue for their collars . I've heard some still use white glue or titebond.
It takes few minutes to remove aluminum screws. Band saw then ball end mill.
I use drilled stainless steel screw if I want a lighter screw .
That makes aluminum screw pretty much of no value to me unless someone wants fancy anodized one.
G10 for almost zero weight added .

Titanium screws are available , of course. Costs a few more dollars .
 

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Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
I didn't blow torch the bent aluminum screw in the cue sent to me for repair from Vietnam. I don't blow torch unless I have to. I have no idea what people use as glue for their collars . I've heard some still use white glue or titebond.
It takes few minutes to remove aluminum screws. Band saw then ball end mill.
I use drilled stainless steel screw if I want a lighter screw .
That makes aluminum screw pretty much of no value to me unless someone wants fancy anodized one.
G10 for almost zero weight added .

Titanium screws are available , of course. Costs a few more dollars .
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's age or experience or both, but I have made enough cues by now that I don't sweat the hypotheticals & theoreticals. I narrow things down to practicality. I don't use titanium for the same reason I don't use stainless. Cost is a non factor. It's a negligible number in the entire scheme of the cue. If somebody wants a G10 pin cue, they can shop somewhere else. I will not do it.

I use pins that are rigid, no flex in normal play, but will give way when forced by abuse. They don't break in half & they don't abrade their interfacing material. When I see(or hear about) a bent pin, I know the cue was abused. Fortunately, it's an easy fix that requires no machining & the cue suffers no other damage. No cracked wood, no refacing, no drilling or machining, no trying to line rings back up. Just glue in the new pin & back to playing. Practical.
 
whammo57

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
Catalin said:
Rather than making a mysterious statement that is very hard to verify, maybe you could elaborate on what would change and how it's quantifiable. The obvious change is one in weight / balance, the material itself is not important I would think.

Julian
Click to expand...

I do admit that the cue was lighter and of course the balance changed a little with the G10 pin......... but I could the feel the cue hitting the cue ball a lot more............ it just felt better........... could be just me but i liked it.................. and the change did make a difference

Kim
 
QMAKER

QMAKER

LIVE FREE OR DIE
Silver Member
G-10 vs Brass

I typically use brass on "players" and G-10 on break cues. I THINK that the brass has a slight edge on feedback/playability and the G-10 allows for a tighter shaft to butt connection.
With that said I have had some feedback on players using the Merlin(G-10)
breaker as a player and are amazed at the playability especially when the PH shaft (Euro taper, G-10 ferrule & Samsara tip) is replaced with a maple shaft (pro taper). Whether it is the G-10 pin or the Merlin construction I have no idea. FWIW
.
 
Welder84

Welder84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So I have 2 cues both BEM, both 12.75 shafts, both 18.5 oz, and both using the same tips with 4 of the same Ld shafts. One cue has a modified 3/8 ×10 pin and one is regular 3/8×10 and the modified plays much stiffer to me. Thats why I was curious about radial.
 
Welder84

Welder84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Intersting, I respect who you are and what you have done in your career. If you think there is not a noticeable difference I will take your word for it. How much of a upgrade do you consider the new modified/radial to be? Is the 3/8×10 obsolete? Thanks
 
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