I see sandbagging in the BCA. It is a money league so tons of players stay underrated to use the lower handicap when the end of the season rolls around and they can actually make some money. Players I know admit to it. I am actually confused. BCA here uses ratings from AAA to D for the purposes of league nights. Do different areas play by different rules within the BCA? Some BCA leagues handicapped while others aren't? I am not familiar with ACS but I assume you only see what you want to see.
Is there a way to estimate your APA skill level
- Thread starter americanfighter
- Start date
I see sandbagging in the BCA. It is a money league so tons of players stay underrated to use the lower handicap when the end of the season rolls around and they can actually make some money. Players I know admit to it. I am actually confused. BCA here uses ratings from AAA to D for the purposes of league nights. Do different areas play by different rules within the BCA? Some BCA leagues handicapped while others aren't? I am not familiar with ACS but I assume you only see what you want to see.
Read the APA team manually. Sandbagging is absolutely discouraged and they do try and stop it. Why do you think teams are disqualified once they hit the national level?
Yay somebody who admits sandbagging. You mine as well wave a flag that says "I am a cheating son of a b*tch".
But back to the OP's question...has anyone come up with a skills test that puts you in the ball park of where your APA or BCAPL handicap should be? I sometime play in handicapped tournaments that like to use APA or BCAPL handicaps, but the TD has to just randomly assign me one (which I often do not like!). I haven't played APA in over 25 years, and I'm not really interested in doing it now...but I am kind of curious where I'd likely stack up.
Yes, but what can be done to stop it on the local level, the "keeping score diligently" doesn't seem to to quite cut it. If it did getting DQ'd at the national level would be a non-issue. But I can say that at a National Event is the very worst place to have a really good weekend at the pool table.
A better question is what can they do? The problem is unless you have some sort of device that reads minds you don't know the intent of the player. The best thing you can do is report somebody that you think is losing on purpose.
I don't recall if it is a bylaw in this region but if your team qualifies for the cities tournament the team must finish in the top 50% leading up to the tournament. That at least gives the message that you better not dog games.
We have the same rule here.
same here.
our lo actually sent a letter out to a team 3 weeks into the session because they were dead last in the standings.
we have the same rule here also.
this is judt one of the rules to prevent sandbagging.
another rule is the national tournament handicap rule. if you sandbag as a 5 all year and then have to play like a 6 in order to win your handicap will be locked in as a 6.
It doesn't really give that message as I read it. It simply says that the team in question must make it look like some effort is being expended. The people who want to manipulate the handicap will do so. Some will get caught, some won't. Some play sober all the time, some get drunk weekly and show up sober to the playoffs and tournaments. They are having fun, but technically speaking they aren't playing their best at all times. Sometimes people feel well other times they don't and in those times they don't focus as they would if they felt better or had more motivation to win.
I have yet to hear a winning player/team file a complaint that their opponent was over rated. Not saying it doesn't happen but I just haven't heard it.
Eliminate the handicap and you may just eliminate the sandbagging problem. Heaven forbid that happens, because if it did then people would have to work on their game to win. It's like every kid in little league gets a trophy for being on the team. Where's the incentive to get better?
What is the highest rating a player can have? What should a player be rated that can beat the 9 ball ghost on a tough table and bet on it? If say 9 is the highest rating, don't you have some who could spot this person rated a 9 the 7. If so, and 9 was the highest rating, how could this be fair when both are rated the same? Also, what are these leagues where people can actually make money playing in them?
Fair question. The National Office should take player complaints seriously and not just send them back to the LO, who will then usually retaliate. I know this isn't the case in all areas but it's certainly the case in many. :frown:
By then, it's too late. How many honest players have been denied a chance to play in the Nationals by under ranked sandbaggers? DQ'ing the cheats at the Nationals does nothing for the honest players who were eliminated early.
The solution to this problem, IMO, is to have a reliable, honest handicap committe of higher ranked skill level players who report back to the LO at least once a month. The members would not be revealed to the other players.
The LO would then warn the sandbaggers to cease and desist. If they continue to sandbag, suspend them for a reasonable length of time. If it continues, ban them for life.
I offered numerous times to serve when I played APA and all of my requests were ignored by the LO. He subsequently loaded the "handicap committee" with SL2's and SL3's who couldn't recognize the sandbagging. Which didn't matter anyway because he ignored all of their recommendations.
Unfortunately, the APA is not into banning players or discouraging sandbagging. Apparently, it cuts into the profit margin. :frown:
Amen to that! I play in a scratch league and enjoy it. Sometimes, I get my a$$ handed to me but at least there's a lot less drama.
I haven't ever played in a league, and probably won't. That said, aren't we just rehashing a societal problem? A certain percentage of the population is honest. the rest of the population is dishonest in various shades of grey to black.
Some folks want the federal government to force the local government to solve the problem. some folks want the local gov't. to take care of it and leave the feds out. And then there are the folks that just wanna do what they do and be left alone.
Kinda reminds me of what a friend said to me in Reno years ago after we made a stupid bet, he said, "Ya order what you want, and ya pay for what ya get."
Some folks want the federal government to force the local government to solve the problem. some folks want the local gov't. to take care of it and leave the feds out. And then there are the folks that just wanna do what they do and be left alone.
Kinda reminds me of what a friend said to me in Reno years ago after we made a stupid bet, he said, "Ya order what you want, and ya pay for what ya get."
Thanks for all the replies. The league starts in a few weeks. I am dissapointed to hear about the sandbagging. I expected some people in the league to do this but not the amount you guys have reported. I want to be competitive and one day make it to the nationals but I hate to cheat like this. I may be kidding myself but right now I am just going to work to be the best I can.
Thanks for all the replies.
Thanks for all the replies.
i play in a double jeopardy league and might have 1 or two sand baggers in a 14 team league. dont be discouraged about it. who cares about them. do you thing and improve your game. :thumbup:
Not every area is as these folks describe.
We have 12-14 teams, and there are maybe 5-6 people who might try to sandbag. Pretty low percentage, out of 120-150 players.
It's like anything else, you get out of it what you put into it. Don't let the negative people bring you down.
Have fun. That's the point.
So you tell the new players to sandbag? Thats EXACTLY whats wrong with pool today. Either come in and play to your level or don't bother playing. Otherwise the system doesn't work and when you get to the finals not everyone has an equal chance of winning.
You should be ashamed of yourself.