f u-nolic tip?

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
seen a bunch of cue balls with stress marks on them
I'm guessing from getting pounded with phenolic tips
I'm not sure tho
I've heard the one ball in a bar loses mass over time
due to it being cracked on over and over
is this true?
could a cue ball incur a similar effect? or could different damage result?

and so many people are trying to jump balls now
I know it's a part of the game (can you kick it tho?)
but I just feel bad for that lil ol cue ball
just trying to say what's up to the homies
maybe give em a cool ride someplace
like the bottom of a nice, comfy leather pocket
why can't it be a smoooth trip

me, I'm at best a c player
but even I can get a decent break going
almost always playing off the wall
now I'm sure still working on it
but I really think it's more about control
and accuracy
than power
and if you need a little juice
why not use a good hard leather tip
we really gotta take shards of cue ball
and embed them into our wooden wands?

now if you do, more power to you (see what I did there)
you could probably give me the 6 anyway
pool is an individual thing
and what works for one person
might not another
I'm just blowin' the blues away
peace:cool:
 

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
A rubber mallet can drive a nail into a wall

A steel hammer can do it in one swing
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Phenolic break tips damage the cue ball. I don't know if they cause those half-circle cracks you sometimes see especially in very old cue balls, but they do leave the surface of the cue ball badly abraded. This is easy enough to test if you have a ball that has a like-new surface that you don't really care about.
 
Last edited:

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
F^*k fun-olic. Yes, they do damage cue-balls. There are a lot of tips that perform as well, if not better, that don't trash a $25 cueball. Some tournaments still ban them.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I've heard the one ball in a bar loses mass over time
due to it being cracked on over and over
is this true?
could a cue ball incur a similar effect?
All balls wear down over time, just from colliding with other balls - of course the cue ball wears down quickest and the one ball next quickest.

The rest of your post was too long to bother with.

pj
chgo
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Some materials, such as G-10, can actually be harder than the phenolic in the cueball. The way some people are slamming the break using such tips, there's no question that this damages the ball. I'm almost entirely sure that those half moon cracks are caused by plastic style tips of various sorts. But you know, it's progress and we're all lame and old who protest everything new etc.. Blah, blah...
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some materials, such as G-10, can actually be harder than the phenolic in the cueball. The way some people are slamming the break using such tips, there's no question that this damages the ball. I'm almost entirely sure that those half moon cracks are caused by plastic style tips of various sorts. But you know, it's progress and we're all lame and old who protest everything new etc.. Blah, blah...
Agree 100%. G10 is even worse than phenolic.
 

conetip

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A carbon break shaft has more impact than that of a wood shaft break cue. The wood absorbs more energy than the carbon does. A carbon breakcue with a g10 tip is definitely going to cause damage. Not all phenolic's are super hard. G10 is harder than phenolics.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A carbon break shaft has more impact than that of a wood shaft break cue. The wood absorbs more energy than the carbon does. A carbon breakcue with a g10 tip is definitely going to cause damage. Not all phenolic's are super hard. G10 is harder than phenolics.
A G10 on any shaft will put those crack circles on a cueball. G10's were wrecking cueballs long before cf shafts ever showed up.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
A G10 on any shaft will put those crack circles on a cueball. G10's were wrecking cueballs long before cf shafts ever showed up.
Maybe it's time to go back to the concept of a break cue ball which is put in only for the smash break and the good cue ball is used for the rest of the shots. Unfortunately jump cues also have phenolic tips.

Someone asked to play some nine ball the other day when I was using my nearly new ball set at the PH. I substituted an old cue ball when I saw he was going to use his "ball destroyer" break cue.
 

Ghosst

Broom Handle Mafia
Silver Member
Phenolic break tips damage the cue ball. I don't know if they cause those half-circle cracks you sometimes see especially in very old cue balls...

I use a Samsara tip on my breaker and have a fairly new Measle cue ball at home. I'll try to take some photos of it tonight. Probably around 600-700 breaks with it so far, and only 3 or 4 jumps.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
All balls wear down over time, just from colliding with other balls - of course the cue ball wears down quickest and the one ball next quickest.
In the following article, I summarize accurate ball weight measurements I took at a local pool hall:

Ball Weight and Size Difference Effects – Part I” (BD, February, 2012)

The 1-balls were lighter than the other OBs. The CBs were a little heavier than the OBs on average, but that is probably because the CBs are changed more frequently than the OBs.

Regards,
Dave
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the following article, I summarize accurate ball weight measurements I took at a local pool hall:

Ball Weight and Size Difference Effects – Part I” (BD, February, 2012)

The 1-balls were lighter than the other OBs. The CBs were a little heavier than the OBs on average, but that is probably because the CBs are changed more frequently than the OBs.

Regards,
Dave

thanks dave, and all for the replies
sorry if I get too frisky with the verbiage
obviously I've touched a nerve
not my intention
I've felt like I could freak out a bit here
that's a credit to you all
but I don't mean to offend
so I'll try to keep my posts more businesslike
and channel the funny stuff elsewhere
right after I take a scale to the bar and weigh a few pool balls
:thumbup:
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I use a Samsara tip on my breaker and have a fairly new Measle cue ball at home. I'll try to take some photos of it tonight. Probably around 600-700 breaks with it so far, and only 3 or 4 jumps.
Samsara's are leather. Work great. I use a White Diamond Ultra and it doesn't leave marks either. Its hard but nothing like G10.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
All balls wear down over time, just from colliding with other balls - ...
I think that's a factor, but the cloth can be a larger factor if it is not cleaned well. Chalk is ground up sand. Chalk in the cloth turns the cloth into sandpaper. Granted, it is fine sandpaper but every time an OB is struck, it initially is sliding rather than rolling and that sliding on fine sandpaper will take the ball down some.

Another factor can be the ball cleaner. It is good to keep the balls clean, but if they are run for longer than necessary in a cleaner that has polish or chalk dust in the pads, the balls will wear down.

Here's a little test you can do at the PH to demonstrate any ball losing a little mass. Rub a spot on the ball with your thumb hard enough to get a little heat. Smell the ball. That smell is some of the ball evaporating. It may be best to do this while no one is looking or in the privacy of your own home.

The place I used to play did not change out the balls for several (many?) years and they used a ball cleaner daily. I have no idea whether they ever changed the pads. All the balls were over a millimeter too small. One player proudly brought in his shiny new measle cue ball but it looked like a bar ball compared to the object balls on the table and it was pretty hard to draw.

Here is an article about ball size and other problems (December column): http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2005.pdf

Here is the main useful result in that column of how to use six "correct" balls to measure how much off a seventh ball is:

CropperCapture[402].jpg

Member Jal showed that the gap is close to three times the diameter error of the middle ball, so that if the gap is 3mm the center ball is large or small by 1mm. This is an amazing result geometrically in that it's true for either kind of gap.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
I dont understand the need for break cues on 7 foot tables. I shoot in a couple leagues and I am pretty sure that I am the only player that shoots with a single cue the whole game. I do not care for soft tips so my tip does not mushroom. I can break plenty hard on a bar box without needing a break cue and I do not posses spectacular break speed. One I do concentrate on is CB control which I find easier with a leather tip. So many guys grab their $500 synthetic tipped break cues and just rip the rack apart only to watch the CB go flying around the table often finding its way into a hole, I dont get it.
 

Ghosst

Broom Handle Mafia
Silver Member
Phenolic break tips damage the cue ball. I don't know if they cause those half-circle cracks you sometimes see especially in very old cue balls, but they do leave the surface of the cue ball badly abraded.

Samsara's are leather. Work great. I use a White Diamond Ultra and it doesn't leave marks either. Its hard but nothing like G10.

I wish the results were perfect so there was no guessing. But, after:

~700 breaks with Samsara tips,
<10 jumps with pure phenolic tips,
~ 5 bounces off the concrete floor

Here is what the ball looks like.

*A phenolic tip might have been used by the previous owner, but he didn't play on it much.

Here is a sample of my break speed.
 

Attachments

  • Cue Ball Cracks.jpg
    Cue Ball Cracks.jpg
    40 KB · Views: 114
Last edited:
Top