Stroke geometry

DynoDan said:

Supposedly, the theory of a proper stroke purports (?) that the upper arm should stay parallel to the table surface while the forearm pivots. Geometrical plotting indicates (to me) that the cue butt would naturally become lower at the center of the stroke arc (with an angle then between the cue & table at the beginning & end of the stroke). Stroke training instruction recommends against elevating the elbow (?), and yet I am lately experiencing better accuracy if my arm (elbow) is raised from parallel just when the ball is struck.
Feedback?

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DynoDan said:

Obviously, since there must also be variables with player stature/physique (those taller who are well down on a shot would likely have an upper arm less parallel). But, I think what I was getting at was whether or not the elbow position should change at point-of-contact (?).

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Get good at moving the cue in a straight line. The cue ball does not care what your elbow does. :thumbup:

DynoDan said:

I am lately experiencing better accuracy if my arm (elbow) is raised from parallel just when the ball is struck.

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What do you mean by “better accuracy”?

pj
chgo

DynoDan said:

Supposedly, the theory of a proper stroke purports (?) that the upper arm should stay parallel to the table surface while the forearm pivots. Geometrical plotting indicates (to me) that the cue butt would naturally become lower at the center of the stroke arc (with an angle then between the cue & table at the beginning & end of the stroke). Stroke training instruction recommends against elevating the elbow (?), and yet I am lately experiencing better accuracy if my arm (elbow) is raised from parallel just when the ball is struck.
Feedback?

Click to expand...

No offense but seriously??? Does anybody think about this? If you can accurately deliver the cue what difference does it make? You start overthinking these minute details and its easy to lose all sense of rhythm/flow.

DynoDan said:

Obviously, since there must also be variables with player stature/physique (those taller who are well down on a shot would likely have an upper arm less parallel). But, I think what I was getting at was whether or not the elbow position should change at point-of-contact (?).

Click to expand...

There's no consensus on this. Some people advocate keeping the elbow still (aka pendulum stroke, creating the variable cue angle throughout the stroke that you observed), some advocate dropping the elbow in the follow-through to allow a longer and less inhibited finish, and some advocate moving the elbow up and down throughout the stroke as needed to maintain a constant cue elevation angle (aka piston stroke).

The best advice you'll get is to figure out what combination of these techniques works best for you as an individual.

Y'all would have a fit watching me play.
I don't hardly bend over much at all due to spinal injury 20 years ago.
My stance is unfortunately identical to Fats.
Dang near standing upright with no pre shot routine what so ever.
I pocket more balls than I miss so I've made it functional out of repetition I figure.
My health has gone South quick recently,
and I'm having more issues with vision than holding the cue square.
Which, is a whole different issue.
Are you sure you're seeing the spot you're aiming at clearly to begin with?
Allot of people have suggested using the 3 second pause before impact to allow your eyes to properly focus on the contact point.

...duplicate post...

You mention Fats and you're stance is similar.
If your chin is on the cue to maybe 12-18" above, the goal is a right angle with the upper arm and forearm. Distances from the cue depends on how tall you are, but if you're standing totally erect, the 90deg thing has to go out the window I think. In this extreme case the stroke comes from the shoulder. The forearm is stationary.

I'm not an instructor. Only try to study this kind of stuff.

Many years ago my instructor forced me to stand taller so I can see the angles better. Since he passed away years ago I've migrated closer to the cue, but not snooker style. Yet.

He also taught that a billiard stroke was more of an "Arm Stroke" than for pool.
That may be because he stood taller and the taller you get, the more the shoulder/elbow has to comes into play. (never thought of this till now)

I think you sort of asked, how do I know where I'm stroking the CB. That's the rub. The further away you are from the CB the harder is is to see much less hit where you want. Parallax its called. That part simply takes practice.

There's been a lot of great players that stood tall. It's not right, wrong or proof of anything except, excelling at the game can be done with any distance from the CB.

DynoDan said:

I am lately experiencing better accuracy if my arm (elbow) is raised from parallel just when the ball is struck.

Click to expand...

Patrick Johnson said:

What do you mean by “better accuracy”?

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DynoDan said:

On long shots from close to the rail ... when I tuck-up my elbow at the last second, those shots usually drop, though my initial line-of-sight image of the CB’s direction seems off, like it will miss.

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Sounds like you're modifying your stroke to compensate for a sighting issue - don't do that. Fix the sighting issue (or whatever the original problem is) and keep your stroke as simple and straight as possible. A fixed elbow (pendulum stroke) through the moment of tip/ball contact makes that most likely.

I recommend spending some time on Dr. Dave's "resource pages" for stroke, stance and vision center (and whatever else you can make time for):

https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/
https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stance/
https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/eyes/vision-center/

pj
chgo