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02-12-2018, 06:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by One Pocket John View Post
An excellent post. We are all different. What works for one may not work for another.

Yeah, the eyes lead and the body follows. That topic is quite another issue.

John
John, does this brace kind of force you to alter your stance and upper body angle which causes the upper arm/lower arm and elbow to work in more efficient manner?

IOW, is the upper arm further away from the body than you're used to and the upper body angled more to the side instead of straight on? Is it closer to the body?

How about the way you grip the butt with a looser grip or firmer grip...more fingers/less fingers? Does that allow the stroke to be better with the brace on or worse?

If the brace could talk, what feedback does it give you from those changes?


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02-12-2018, 08:06 AM

All very good questions Dave.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post
John, does this brace kind of force you to alter your stance and upper body angle which causes the upper arm/lower arm and elbow to work in more efficient manner?

Yes it does. I'll try to explain. I have white lines running diagonally from the corner pockets, looks like a big X. What I do (from a standing position) is to raise my hand up to my shoulder and align my arm with the white line, once I have this, with my hand still up to my shoulder I step into the shot with my left leg having my left shoulder lead as much as possible, comfortable and not over done into the shooting position. This locks my right shoulder and prevents the shoulder from coming around on the shot. Once I have done this I know my upper arm and lower arm are on the shot line.


IOW, is the upper arm further away from the body than you're used to and the upper body angled more to the side instead of straight on? Is it closer to the body?

I"ll have to do a video to answer this question accurately. I do them all the time no problem.
Okay, did a short video to check my alignment, I am one happy person, I now have the pro alignment. Bridge, grip, head, shoulder and tip of elbow are all on the shot line while stroking the cue back and forth.

How about the way you grip the butt with a looser grip or firmer grip...more fingers/less fingers? Does that allow the stroke to be better with the brace on or worse?

The grip is as shown in Barry Stark's videos.

If the brace could talk, what feedback does it give you from those changes?
The brace allows for your shooting arm to be relaxed using only the triceps and lower bicep. The brace hinges in one direction only so you better make sure that the upper arm is on the shot line.


Played my weekly game today and I'm happy with the results so far. Going to give it 2 more weeks, that's a couple thousand balls for me.
This whole exercise has to become automatic with no thought, just look and shoot.

John


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I don't play One Pocket as much as I use to, but when I do, I play at Cue & Cushion - Overland, MO.

In Memory of Dean Higgs and Harry Sims - gone but not forgotten and thank you.

Last edited by One Pocket John; 02-12-2018 at 03:21 PM.
  
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02-12-2018, 09:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post
John, does this brace kind of force you to alter your stance and upper body angle which causes the upper arm/lower arm and elbow to work in more efficient manner?

IOW, is the upper arm further away from the body than you're used to and the upper body angled more to the side instead of straight on? Is it closer to the body?

How about the way you grip the butt with a looser grip or firmer grip...more fingers/less fingers? Does that allow the stroke to be better with the brace on or worse?

If the brace could talk, what feedback does it give you from those changes?
Just wondering what brace you guys are talking about. Been having troubles with my stroke, willing to give anything a try to correct it. Do you have a link for the brace?

Thanks.


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02-12-2018, 09:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8pack View Post
Just wondering what brace you guys are talking about. Been having troubles with my stroke, willing to give anything a try to correct it. Do you have a link for the brace?

Thanks.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...=0=&rmvSB=true


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02-12-2018, 09:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post
lol..I haven't been following this post, jumped to the end of it. Thanks for the link, next time I'll start from the beginning.

Thanks


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02-13-2018, 07:41 AM

well my device came yesterday
i bought a "good " one for the experiment
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1
i played for 15 minutes with it
but on full flexion the supports for my forearm and upper arm dug into my skin making it uncomfortable to use
i tried some more pure pendulum type strokes and some where on purpose where i droped me elbow to extend the the follow thru after contact with the cue ball
i will play around with the fit some
but my initial impression is still your elblow joint goes back and forth in a straght line
it is shoulder recruitment or wrist that gets the stroke off line
even when you steer the cue stick
its more swinging your upper arm in or out
but the line of uppr arm to forearm stays the same
aligning wrong but stroking straight is a whole differnt problem
jmho
icbw
  
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02-13-2018, 08:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
but my initial impression is still your elblow joint goes back and forth in a straght line

it is shoulder recruitment or wrist that gets the stroke off line
even when you steer the cue stick
its more swinging your upper arm in or out


but the line of uppr arm to forearm stays the same
I agree completely. When I get into a little funk, my upper arm/elbow floats away from my body and the tip of the cue moves to the left on the CB. It's not the elbow causing it.

I've never used this device nor will because I use tuck and roll with the hand and wrist, BHE English (rarely or never parallel English), and pivoting which doesn't go well with the performance of it when this thing is on.

I could see a benefit to it if it forces a player to alter the stance and upper body angle to the ball so the upper arm doesn't float away from the shoulder to go back and forth in a more pendulum fashion straight back and forward along the setup and shot line.

Lets face it, how many amateurs are addressing the shot in their optimal position?
It's there mainly from comfort, habit, and repetition which could be right or wrong for them.

Body style and body weight itself could play a big factor in how the upper arm and shoulder work to accommodate a thick chest and lats in the backstroke.

I could be wrong from not being attentive enough, but I've never seen an overweight or fat snooker player with a lack of flexibility to prevent getting low on the cue or the extra heft causing the upper arm to go off line.


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02-13-2018, 03:02 PM

Just to lighten things up a little. Now this is funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkRNFyng06I

The brace that was given to me is fully adjustable for different length arms.

The attached photos show the length adjustments, notice that the part of the brace for the wrist is shaped like the letter "C" when your
wrist is strapped in there your wrist cannot turn which means that the "V" formed between the thumb and index finger must follow straight when closing the forearm.

John
Attached Images
  


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I don't play One Pocket as much as I use to, but when I do, I play at Cue & Cushion - Overland, MO.

In Memory of Dean Higgs and Harry Sims - gone but not forgotten and thank you.

Last edited by One Pocket John; 02-13-2018 at 03:34 PM.
  
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02-13-2018, 03:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
well my device came yesterday
i bought a "good " one for the experiment
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1
i played for 15 minutes with it
but on full flexion the supports for my forearm and upper arm dug into my skin making it uncomfortable to use
i tried some more pure pendulum type strokes and some where on purpose where i droped me elbow to extend the the follow thru after contact with the cue ball
i will play around with the fit some

but my initial impression is still your elblow joint goes back and forth in a straght line
it is shoulder recruitment or wrist that gets the stroke off line.

This is why you lead with the none shooting shoulder, when done properly it locks your shooting shoulder in place and will not allow for the shoulder to come around on the shot, but it will allow for the upper arm to swivel in the shoulder socket.
If you adjust the lower forearm part of the brace as close to you hand as possible (should not interfere with the breaking of the wrist) this will take car of this issue.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZaejfsbMGc

even when you steer the cue stick

its more swinging your upper arm in or out
but the line of uppr arm to forearm stays the same
aligning wrong but stroking straight is a whole differnt problem

This is why you must work to align your stance to allow for the arm to naturally close


jmho
icbw
Just try'in to help Larry.

John


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St. Louis, MO.

I don't play One Pocket as much as I use to, but when I do, I play at Cue & Cushion - Overland, MO.

In Memory of Dean Higgs and Harry Sims - gone but not forgotten and thank you.

Last edited by One Pocket John; 02-13-2018 at 04:30 PM.
  
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02-13-2018, 05:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post
I agree completely. When I get into a little funk, my upper arm/elbow floats away from my body and the tip of the cue moves to the left on the CB. It's not the elbow causing it.

I've never used this device nor will because I use tuck and roll with the hand and wrist, BHE English (rarely or never parallel English), and pivoting which doesn't go well with the performance of it when this thing is on.

I could see a benefit to it if it forces a player to alter the stance and upper body angle to the ball so the upper arm doesn't float away from the shoulder to go back and forth in a more pendulum fashion straight back and forward along the setup and shot line. Yes, this is what the brace has done for me.

Lets face it, how many amateurs are addressing the shot in their optimal position?
It's there mainly from comfort, habit, and repetition which could be right or wrong for them.

Body style and body weight itself could play a big factor in how the upper arm and shoulder work to accommodate a thick chest and lats in the backstroke.

I could be wrong from not being attentive enough, but I've never seen an overweight or fat snooker player with a lack of flexibility to prevent getting low on the cue or the extra heft causing the upper arm to go off line.
In blue.

John


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I don't play One Pocket as much as I use to, but when I do, I play at Cue & Cushion - Overland, MO.

In Memory of Dean Higgs and Harry Sims - gone but not forgotten and thank you.
  
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02-13-2018, 07:05 PM

john
i will play with it some more
maybe my stroke is improving so much
i dont see the benefit of the brace,,,,
  
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02-20-2018, 07:38 AM

Completed my third week Saturday using the brace. I am really happy with the results I'm seeing so far.

I hit about 200 balls a day with the brace on. At no time do I practice without the brace.

I play a friend of mine every Monday (without the brace of course) and pay attention to my PSR and cue delivery.

The first week I used the brace I had to work on how this thing could benefit my fundamentals. By the end of the first week I started seeing how to arrange my stance to accommodate the brace having my shooting arm close naturally on the shot line.

The second week I used the brace was just to keep on doing what I had found in the later part of the first week.

The third week everything started to become more automatic with my PSR and cue delivery.

Played my friend this past Monday and did very well. Driving home with a grin on my face knowing that I was headed down the right path using the brace.

So far I have hit approx. 4000 balls in practice using the brace.

I was only going to test the brace for a month but after seeing the results over the last three weeks I think the brace will be used everyday for as long as I play at home.

Just an update guy's I'm not suggesting that folks should run out and get one of these things all I'm saying here is that I have finally found something that has worked for ME after 7 years of working on my fundamentals.

Have fun out there.

John


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St. Louis, MO.

I don't play One Pocket as much as I use to, but when I do, I play at Cue & Cushion - Overland, MO.

In Memory of Dean Higgs and Harry Sims - gone but not forgotten and thank you.
  
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03-31-2018, 07:40 AM

Well, it's been 8 weeks and approx. 8000 balls shot using the Range of Motion Arm Brace.

I'm very happy with the end result. It was necessary to go the whole 8 weeks and a bunch of shots to allow for my muscle memory to store the new movement.

My arm only closes naturally one way. So what I did was build my stance around my arm
and wrist (the wrist can only fit into the brace one way which keeps the it inline with the forearm) and using Bert Kinister's vol.11 method of aligning my body to allow for my shooting arm to come down onto the shot line naturally.

It took a bit to get use too. In the Little Book of Talent the author states that it takes approx. 8 weeks to learn a new skill. I think he is right.

The only time I didn't wear the brace is at my weekly meeting with my friend to play 9 ball, 10 ball and 8 ball, takes about 2 1/2 hours to play.
This is where the rubber meets the road and results are seen. Did I beat him in all the games.......no, but I sure did look good losing.

Anyway, like I have said all along, I am not going to suggest that everyone run out and get one these braces. I'm only going to go on record saying that the brace has helped me build some really good and solid fundamentals.

Now the only thing left is to learn how to break, make balls, see patterns and play position.

I'm still going to use the brace to warm up ( about 30 minutes), then its coming off and begin practicing without the brace on.

It's been fun learning something new stuff.

Later.

John


One Pocket John
St. Louis, MO.

I don't play One Pocket as much as I use to, but when I do, I play at Cue & Cushion - Overland, MO.

In Memory of Dean Higgs and Harry Sims - gone but not forgotten and thank you.

Last edited by One Pocket John; 03-31-2018 at 07:43 AM.
  
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03-31-2018, 01:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by One Pocket John View Post
It's been fun learning something new stuff.

Later.

John
I think its great whenever someone thinks outside the box and tries something unconventional. Sometimes you have to ignore everybody who tells you why you shouldn't do something, and just try it! This game is not just all about how many balls you can run. It is also about the fun in leaning new things along the way.

Thanks for sharing your experience.


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Angry 03-31-2018, 01:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
I think its great whenever someone thinks outside the box and tries something unconventional. Sometimes you have to ignore everybody who tells you why you shouldn't do something, and just try it! This game is not just all about how many balls you can run. It is also about the fun in leaning new things along the way.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
One of the best posts I've read.


POOLOLOGY
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