Common problems of newer APA players

Maniac said:

Inquiring minds want to know.

Maniac (unless you were making a lewd joke)

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JazzyJeff87 said:

Lol. Tony in MD who is no longer in MD...How far away are you? Say from Annapolis.

CuseFan where in the country are you? The Scruggs makes it slightly more likely you’re in the area.

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CuseFan559 said:

I just started playing this year at age 50 and I joined a local APA league this summer. I started out as a SL 3 and was demoted to a SL 2. I have a couple of instructional books and some of Dr. Dave's DVD's and I take a lesson once a month from a instructor. I have a home table and practice frequently but I make very little progress. Sometimes I feel like I am regressing. The main problem I have is having a straight stroke and hitting the object ball where I am actually aiming at. It is very frustrating and discouraging. I get nervous in league and miss easy straight in shots. Any suggestions or drills that I can do besides quitting pool and taking up bowling. Thanks

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Tony_in_MD said:

I am an hour north of Annapolis.

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JazzyJeff87 said:

Nice...I need some lessons in my pool life. I shall call you up in the near future if you’re still in the bidness.

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buckshotshoey said:

This^...and....
I've found most of my missed shots were because of bad stance alignment. The way you approach the table and step into the shot is critical. This must be correct every time. It takes time ...lots of practice....to get it right.

I suggest look at your shot from a short distance away. And walk toward the table, without taking your eys off the shot line(cue ball path), and step into your shot.

Also, work with your instructor to see if you have an eye dominance problem.

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JazzyJeff87 said:

Get the white “hole reinforcement” donuts to stick on the table so you can practice the same shots. Like a simple cut or whatever. And once you know right where you have to hit it...practice stepping into that shot over and over until your getting on it correct each time. You shouldn’t have to lean left or right once down on the shot.

Imagine someone is holding a string tied to your elbow and let your forearm swing free when you stroke, and **keep your grip hand loose** don’t tighten up right before you make contact with the cue ball. No wrist action until you’re at least a 6

When shooting, imagine you are going all the way through the cue ball and into the point you’re aiming at on the object ball. Like you’re reaching way out with your cue tip. Don’t actually lunge at the OB or anything obviously but it can help to think you’re going all the way to that ball.


These are just a few thoughts and things that helped me personally.

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Maniac said:

Well....you have certainly armed yourself with the proper playing equipment.

I have never see such quality cues and cases owned by a SL2.

Just sayin'....

Maniac

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BryanB said:

Don't give up..bowling is harder. Much easier to run a perfect rack vs bowling a 300. Setup a shot using some of those hole reinforcements on the table
https://www.amazon.com/Avery-Hole-Reinforcements-White-1000/dp/B00006IBUZ
Chalk up and clean the cue ball so you can see where you hit it after each shot. Works best with either a measle ball or one of the training cue balls
https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwj72a3w0uflAhVU3IYKHQKWBLsYABAXGgJ2dQ&sig=AOD64_313lTubi82f_pyqqpG_rEjoXL0Gw&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwirjqjw0uflAhXFt1kKHSa0B-4QpysIYw&adurl=
You will clearly be able to see where you hit it and how the cue ball and object ball reacts

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JazzyJeff87 said:

Lol. Tony in MD who is no longer in MD...How far away are you? Say from Annapolis.

CuseFan where in the country are you? The Scruggs makes it slightly more likely you’re in the area.

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erhino41 said:

Number one I've seen by far is not following through and staying down on the shot. Number two is holding the cue either to far forward or to far back.

Nothing else can be corrected until these two things are addressed. A proper repeatable delivery is a must before you can diagnose any other deficiencies.

Several players I've worked with, ones that actually wanted to improve and would accept advice, improved immensely by just focusing on these two areas alone. They were always surprised how reliable they could execute shots that were always iffy before.

One player I just spent a few short practice sessions with went from hopefully making two balls in a row to sometimes actually getting out of easier racks of nine ball. Only change was having him stay down and follow through. He was a longtime body English player and really had no clue why he was missing shots. He was dumbfounded when he was not only making shots he was usually 50/50 on but was reliably getting shape a well. Even though he didn't play well, it seemed he actual learned a lot in the time he'd been playing. He just needed the basics taught to him.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

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Banger said:

I'm going to suggest that you are the perfect candidate to take a pool lesson from someone like Scott Lee, or Randy G., or any of the other PBIA instructors. They will help you develop a consistent, repeatable stroke, AND, you will learn how to analyze your stroke, to help head off any inconsistency problems you may have in the future.

These instructors are far more than some guy standing around saying try this, or try that. They use video analysis, as well as scientific studies to help you learn to play better. Plus, at the end of the day, I got a video copy of the entire lesson on a CD. I've enjoyed pool for 40+ years, but my lesson (half day, that turned into 6+ hours) with Scott Lee was still worth every penny.

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CuseFan559 said:

Is the correct place to hold the cue about 6" below the balance point?

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CGM said:

A lesson with a PBIA instructor will give you all the info you need on perfecting stance, grip, eye patterns and stroke.

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jeffj2h said:

After playing only APA masters for years, I recently also joined a handicap team. I've been having a lot of fun meeting new people and coaching during timeouts and such. Watching the matches I see players with the same issues, over and over. Here are some of the most common problems I’ve seen and some suggestions.

Anyone have other examples?


1) Shooting hangers too thick

Very common to see a player shoot a long distance hanger too thick, and the rolling ball spin results in the CB hitting the OB, then end rail, and dying on the end rail.

Suggestion: Practice shooting hangers with a ¼ ball hit, with no english. Set up a hanger at the foot spot end of the table, and shoot ¼ ball shots with the CB at various spots along the head string. You’ll see the pattern and it will revolutionize how you shoot hangers. For example, a ¼ ball hit shot from the head spot, will return the CB to the head spot.

Suggestion: Watch Dr. Dave’s recent video on shooting hangers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSltfCgKUtw


2) Having fundamental misunderstandings about CB english

Example 1: The player wants to shoot a ball in, and they know the path they want the CB to take to the next shot, but they don’t know if that requires left or right english. This is like getting in a car and thinking that to move forward you put the car into Reverse.

Suggestion: Set up various simple 25 degree cut shots, and try the shot with every type of spin, imaging the CB as a clock face. The reason for the 25 degree angle is it’s often possible to get anywhere on the table if you have a 25 degree cut, so an experienced player very often leaves themselves with a 25 degree cut.

Example 2: The player does not know whether the CB is spinning, sliding, or what to create draw or a stop shot.

Suggestion: Using just a striped ball, show the player the 3 phases of a ball hit with draw. Put the stripe on the head spot, with the stripes aligned sideways, and shoot a draw shot down the table (with no OB). They will see the stripes spinning backwards, then sliding, then spinning forward. Shoot the shot with various speeds. They will see that with a harder hit, the sliding phase occurs farther down the table, and that that’s how you create a stop shot affect. Explain the sliding phase can be adjusted either by adjusting your speed or how low on the CB you hit it.


3) Not hitting low enough when attempting draw

Example 1: The player uses a level cue but only a half-tip or so of low. Maybe they are afraid of miscuing?
Example 2: The player elevates both the butt of the cue and the tip of the cue, so they are shooting slightly down on the ball, but not hitting low enough.

Suggestion: Have the player line up on a shot, with their cue in their draw position. Point out that it’s the top of the cue tip that hits the CB, and that they can actually push the tip a lot lower. Grab the tip and softly push it down so they can see they’ve got another half inch.

Suggestion: Here is a trick Bert Kinister uses to show a student they can safely use 3 tips of left/right english without miscuing. It helps you get over the mental fear of using so much english. Showing someone this might also help convince them they can go lower on the ball without miscuing. Firmly hold the CB down on the table, using both hands. Have the player chalk up, then using their normal stance and bridging, press the cue against the CB with 3 tips of english. Holding the cue against the CB, have them press harder and harder. They can press with an amazing amount of force and the cue will not slide off the CB.

4) Hitting the CB too hard

This is extremely common. I’ve tried suggestions like “shoot that shot 50% softer than you think you should” and it never works.

Suggestion: Randy G teaches to shorten your bridge length. For a super soft shot, use a 1 inch bridge. But any bridge shortening will help. It prevents you from using a fast, jerky, piston like, practice stroke. If a player uses long, fast practice strokes, it’s just about impossible for them to suddenly slow their stroke up for the actual shot.

Suggestion: If you use your normal bridge length, just shorten your backstroke. Dr. Dave discusses this here (18 minute mark): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5KLgkYSBzE


5) Elevating the cue too much

Players don’t realize they are doing this, and it creates swerve errors in their shots. Usually it’s just the butt they are elevating too much but I’ve occasionally seen someone using a very high bridge on every shot, which creates the above mentioned draw problem.


6) Awkward closed bridge

Often new players (SL2-SL3) have this issue. Their index finger rests on top of the cue shaft instead of wrapping around the shaft and resting on their thumb. This creates a lot of friction between their index finger and the shaft and you can see the shaft wobbling all over the place during their practice strokes.

Suggestion: Practice a closed bridge for 10-15 minutes a day, at home. Even on a kitchen table. Also when sitting around, hold your hand out and practice creating a closed bridge. Doing this for a week or two will create a solid bridge. Once it’s rock solid, use a closed bridge when playing. Until then, use an open bridge (but note you may need to practice an open bridge as well, to make it solid).


7) Not recognizing classic scratch shots, or thinking a shot is a scratch when it’s nowhere close to being a scratch shot

The most classic scratch shot would be a side pocket hanger that’s a 30 degree cut or anything higher.

Suggestion: Point out the ghost ball position for the shot, and how to judge the tangent line. From there it’s possible to judge whether follow or draw is needed to bend the CB path away from a scratch. Or for the side pocket hanger, shooting the OB extra thick or thin, or shooting super soft.


Suggestion: Dr. Dave’s 30-degree “peace sign” looks like a useful tool for judging the CB path over a wide range of angles. He discusses it in the above video.

-Jeff

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jeffj2h said:

After playing only APA masters for years, I recently also joined a handicap team. I've been having a lot of fun meeting new people and coaching during timeouts and such. Watching the matches I see players with the same issues, over and over. Here are some of the most common problems I’ve seen and some suggestions.

Anyone have other examples?


1) Shooting hangers too thick

Very common to see a player shoot a long distance hanger too thick, and the rolling ball spin results in the CB hitting the OB, then end rail, and dying on the end rail.

Suggestion: Practice shooting hangers with a ¼ ball hit, with no english. Set up a hanger at the foot spot end of the table, and shoot ¼ ball shots with the CB at various spots along the head string. You’ll see the pattern and it will revolutionize how you shoot hangers. For example, a ¼ ball hit shot from the head spot, will return the CB to the head spot.

Suggestion: Watch Dr. Dave’s recent video on shooting hangers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSltfCgKUtw


2) Having fundamental misunderstandings about CB english

Example 1: The player wants to shoot a ball in, and they know the path they want the CB to take to the next shot, but they don’t know if that requires left or right english. This is like getting in a car and thinking that to move forward you put the car into Reverse.

Suggestion: Set up various simple 25 degree cut shots, and try the shot with every type of spin, imaging the CB as a clock face. The reason for the 25 degree angle is it’s often possible to get anywhere on the table if you have a 25 degree cut, so an experienced player very often leaves themselves with a 25 degree cut.

Example 2: The player does not know whether the CB is spinning, sliding, or what to create draw or a stop shot.

Suggestion: Using just a striped ball, show the player the 3 phases of a ball hit with draw. Put the stripe on the head spot, with the stripes aligned sideways, and shoot a draw shot down the table (with no OB). They will see the stripes spinning backwards, then sliding, then spinning forward. Shoot the shot with various speeds. They will see that with a harder hit, the sliding phase occurs farther down the table, and that that’s how you create a stop shot affect. Explain the sliding phase can be adjusted either by adjusting your speed or how low on the CB you hit it.


3) Not hitting low enough when attempting draw

Example 1: The player uses a level cue but only a half-tip or so of low. Maybe they are afraid of miscuing?
Example 2: The player elevates both the butt of the cue and the tip of the cue, so they are shooting slightly down on the ball, but not hitting low enough.

Suggestion: Have the player line up on a shot, with their cue in their draw position. Point out that it’s the top of the cue tip that hits the CB, and that they can actually push the tip a lot lower. Grab the tip and softly push it down so they can see they’ve got another half inch.

Suggestion: Here is a trick Bert Kinister uses to show a student they can safely use 3 tips of left/right english without miscuing. It helps you get over the mental fear of using so much english. Showing someone this might also help convince them they can go lower on the ball without miscuing. Firmly hold the CB down on the table, using both hands. Have the player chalk up, then using their normal stance and bridging, press the cue against the CB with 3 tips of english. Holding the cue against the CB, have them press harder and harder. They can press with an amazing amount of force and the cue will not slide off the CB.

4) Hitting the CB too hard

This is extremely common. I’ve tried suggestions like “shoot that shot 50% softer than you think you should” and it never works.

Suggestion: Randy G teaches to shorten your bridge length. For a super soft shot, use a 1 inch bridge. But any bridge shortening will help. It prevents you from using a fast, jerky, piston like, practice stroke. If a player uses long, fast practice strokes, it’s just about impossible for them to suddenly slow their stroke up for the actual shot.

Suggestion: If you use your normal bridge length, just shorten your backstroke. Dr. Dave discusses this here (18 minute mark): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5KLgkYSBzE


5) Elevating the cue too much

Players don’t realize they are doing this, and it creates swerve errors in their shots. Usually it’s just the butt they are elevating too much but I’ve occasionally seen someone using a very high bridge on every shot, which creates the above mentioned draw problem.


6) Awkward closed bridge

Often new players (SL2-SL3) have this issue. Their index finger rests on top of the cue shaft instead of wrapping around the shaft and resting on their thumb. This creates a lot of friction between their index finger and the shaft and you can see the shaft wobbling all over the place during their practice strokes.

Suggestion: Practice a closed bridge for 10-15 minutes a day, at home. Even on a kitchen table. Also when sitting around, hold your hand out and practice creating a closed bridge. Doing this for a week or two will create a solid bridge. Once it’s rock solid, use a closed bridge when playing. Until then, use an open bridge (but note you may need to practice an open bridge as well, to make it solid).


7) Not recognizing classic scratch shots, or thinking a shot is a scratch when it’s nowhere close to being a scratch shot

The most classic scratch shot would be a side pocket hanger that’s a 30 degree cut or anything higher.

Suggestion: Point out the ghost ball position for the shot, and how to judge the tangent line. From there it’s possible to judge whether follow or draw is needed to bend the CB path away from a scratch. Or for the side pocket hanger, shooting the OB extra thick or thin, or shooting super soft.


Suggestion: Dr. Dave’s 30-degree “peace sign” looks like a useful tool for judging the CB path over a wide range of angles. He discusses it in the above video.

-Jeff

Click to expand...