Pool has a "FATAL FLAW"

Paul Schofield

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It’s not rocket science. All one has to do is pick out the common components of all successful sports and then identify what is missing in pool. Pool has a “FATAL FLAW”. Pool has its own glass ceiling.

Here is the “FATAL FLAW”: A player is entitled to play on offence and score without limit while an opponent sits idly without influence. The combination of these components is not a recipe for success. All sports know that this is unacceptable. No successful legitimate sport has this structure. This current structure of pool mirrors a video game, not a sport. Play Pac Man and make your opponent sit and watch you clear screens. Play pool and make your opponent sit and watch you run balls/racks.

Take note of the following: a 240,000 straight rail billiard run, a run of 622 balkline billiards, a run of 31 three cushion billiards, a run of 4137 points in English Billiards, a 526 ball run in straight pool, an 18 pack in bar-box nine-ball, an 11 pack in nine-ball on a big-table. Where are these games now? Are these examples of successful games with viable futures? All these games are evidence of failed attempts to come to terms with the “FATAL FLAW”. Players get good so let’s make the game harder. Is Ten Ball with tiny pockets the answer to improving interest in the game? I don’t think so.

Baseball, football, basketball, golf, bowling, and other successful sports have written into their rules, regular and predictable opportunities for players/teams to participate. This makes for viable competition and result in popular successful sports. Pool needs to look inward at its structure and look for ways to do the same. The fix would send pool’s evolution in an entirely different direction. Evolution takes a long time and pool is light years away from being ready for prime time. If the “FATAL FLAW” was fixed, I think it is very possible that over time, one new game would emerge that would have the broad based appeal needed so that pool could join all the other successful sports.
 
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M

Masayoshi

Fusenshou no Masa
Silver Member
Paul Schofield said:
It’s not rocket science. All one has to do is pick out the common components of all successful sports and then identify what is missing in pool. Pool has a “FATAL FLAW”. Pool has its own glass ceiling.

Here is the “FATAL FLAW”: A player is entitled to play on offence and score without limit while an opponent sits idly without influence. This is a recipe for absolute failure. All sports know that this is unacceptable. No successful legitimate sport has this structure. This current structure of pool mirrors a video game, not a sport. Play Pac Man and make your opponent sit and watch you clear screens. Play pool and make your opponent sit and watch you run balls/racks.

Take note of the following: a 240,000 straight rail billiard run, a run of 622 balkline billiards, a run of 31 three cushion billiards, a run of 4137 points in English Billiards, a 526 ball run in straight pool, an 18 pack in bar-box nine-ball, an 11 pack in nine-ball on a big-table. Where are these games now? Are these examples of successful games with viable futures? All these games are evidence of failed attempts to come to terms with the “FATAL FLAW”. Players get good so let’s make the game harder. Is Ten Ball with tiny pockets the answer to improving interest in the game? I don’t think so.

Baseball, football, basketball, golf, bowling, and other successful sports have written into their rules, regular and predictable opportunities for players/teams to participate. This makes for viable competition and result in popular successful sports. Pool needs to look inward at its structure and look for ways to do the same. The fix would send pool’s evolution in an entirely different direction. Evolution takes a long time and pool is light years away from being ready for prime time. If the “FATAL FLAW” was fixed, I think it is very possible that over time, one new game would emerge that would have the broad based appeal needed so that pool could join all the other successful sports.

Promoting pool in its current form is suicide.
Click to expand...

How about snooker?
 
DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
Uh, golf has pretty broad based appeal, has major sponsorship, hugely successful tours, network TV plus it's own dedicated cable channel, and even the second tier & journeyman pros are millionaires.

In golf your competitor also doesn't play defense against you.

With all due respect, I don't think that's it.
 
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manwon

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
Paul Schofield said:
It’s not rocket science. All one has to do is pick out the common components of all successful sports and then identify what is missing in pool. Pool has a “FATAL FLAW”. Pool has its own glass ceiling.

Here is the “FATAL FLAW”: A player is entitled to play on offence and score without limit while an opponent sits idly without influence. This is a recipe for absolute failure. All sports know that this is unacceptable. No successful legitimate sport has this structure. This current structure of pool mirrors a video game, not a sport. Play Pac Man and make your opponent sit and watch you clear screens. Play pool and make your opponent sit and watch you run balls/racks.

Take note of the following: a 240,000 straight rail billiard run, a run of 622 balkline billiards, a run of 31 three cushion billiards, a run of 4137 points in English Billiards, a 526 ball run in straight pool, an 18 pack in bar-box nine-ball, an 11 pack in nine-ball on a big-table. Where are these games now? Are these examples of successful games with viable futures? All these games are evidence of failed attempts to come to terms with the “FATAL FLAW”. Players get good so let’s make the game harder. Is Ten Ball with tiny pockets the answer to improving interest in the game? I don’t think so.

Baseball, football, basketball, golf, bowling, and other successful sports have written into their rules, regular and predictable opportunities for players/teams to participate. This makes for viable competition and result in popular successful sports. Pool needs to look inward at its structure and look for ways to do the same. The fix would send pool’s evolution in an entirely different direction. Evolution takes a long time and pool is light years away from being ready for prime time. If the “FATAL FLAW” was fixed, I think it is very possible that over time, one new game would emerge that would have the broad based appeal needed so that pool could join all the other successful sports.

Promoting pool in its current form is suicide.
Click to expand...



So how do you propose to fix it?
 
Paul Schofield

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A player is guaranteed to play 18 holes and putt the ball 18 times into the hole. Golf is very good. Imagine if only one golfer was allowed to play hole after hole until he bogied and then and only then could his opponent play.

It is the preservation of the “FATAL FLAW” that is at the very root of all of pool’s troubles resulting in a seemingly endless evolution and parade of pool games. PROOF: The story of billiards path from straight rail all the way to three-cushion is really a story about the “FATAL FLAW”. It is a story about how a simple and beautiful game that everyone could understand and anyone could play evolved to a game that few can understand and even fewer can play. It is a story of how a game developed into a cult game and essentially became irrelevant in the main stream. Save the “FATAL FLAW”

This is also the story of pocket pool games. The “FATAL FLAW” is preserved while pool makes these giant leaps into new territories. Each and every step, the game becomes more and more difficult, alienating more and more potential players and confused spectators. In an effort to minimize the “FATAL FLAW”, the tiny pocket has emerged. This could very well be the death throes for pocket games. The leap to Ten-Ball parallels Billiards trek to its final resting place (Three Cushion Billiards).
 
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DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
Really though, with the possible exception of 14.1 when played at the expert level, for all practical purposes in every game played professionally both players get their chances. This is true in 8, 9, & 10 Ball races as well as in one pocket.

And even in 14.1, the round robin format pretty much minimizes a player going two and out without ever getting a chance other than the opening break. And in straight pool if someone in the room was on the verge of running 150 and out off the opening break all eyes in the room would be on that match.
 
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KRJ

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Hmmmm

I guess this "fatal flaw" as you call it was not detected way back when pool was king, reported in the papers, and pool players made a darn good living. Pool halls were thriving, fans wanted to watch, and pool legends were just that. And then this "flaw" was discovered, and poof,it was all over. Heck, I'd pay a few bucks and then some to watch Mosconi, Lassitar and quite a few others run balls, even hundreds of balls !!

Baseball must have fatal flaw as well, since it's the only sport that when you are on offense, you DON"T have the ball. How could that possibly work. All the other sports when on offense they present the ball to you in a gift basket to move forward and try to score. Basebal, the defense controls the ball and tries not to let you touch it. It is also the only sport where the ball does not score, but the man scores. A second flaw. Baseball is most likely doomed me thinks.
;)
 
hangemhigh

hangemhigh

Known Sinner
Silver Member
DogsPlayingPool said:
Uh, golf has pretty broad based appeal, has major sponsorship, hugely successful tours, network TV plus it's own dedicated cable channel, and even the second tier & journeyman pros are millionaires.

In golf your competitor also doesn't play defense against you.

With all due respect, I don't think that's it.
Click to expand...

That is why Golf got rid of the Stymie in '52.
 
mnorwood

mnorwood

Moon
Silver Member
Paul Schofield said:
It’s not rocket science. All one has to do is pick out the common components of all successful sports and then identify what is missing in pool. Pool has a “FATAL FLAW”. Pool has its own glass ceiling.

Here is the “FATAL FLAW”: A player is entitled to play on offence and score without limit while an opponent sits idly without influence. This is a recipe for absolute failure. All sports know that this is unacceptable. No successful legitimate sport has this structure. This current structure of pool mirrors a video game, not a sport. Play Pac Man and make your opponent sit and watch you clear screens. Play pool and make your opponent sit and watch you run balls/racks.

Take note of the following: a 240,000 straight rail billiard run, a run of 622 balkline billiards, a run of 31 three cushion billiards, a run of 4137 points in English Billiards, a 526 ball run in straight pool, an 18 pack in bar-box nine-ball, an 11 pack in nine-ball on a big-table. Where are these games now? Are these examples of successful games with viable futures? All these games are evidence of failed attempts to come to terms with the “FATAL FLAW”. Players get good so let’s make the game harder. Is Ten Ball with tiny pockets the answer to improving interest in the game? I don’t think so.

Baseball, football, basketball, golf, bowling, and other successful sports have written into their rules, regular and predictable opportunities for players/teams to participate. This makes for viable competition and result in popular successful sports. Pool needs to look inward at its structure and look for ways to do the same. The fix would send pool’s evolution in an entirely different direction. Evolution takes a long time and pool is light years away from being ready for prime time. If the “FATAL FLAW” was fixed, I think it is very possible that over time, one new game would emerge that would have the broad based appeal needed so that pool could join all the other successful sports.

Promoting pool in its current form is suicide.
Click to expand...

So what do you suggest?
 
Paul Schofield

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DogsPlayingPool said:
Really though, with the possible exception of 14.1 when played at the expert level, for all practical purposes in every game played professionally both players get their chances. This is true in 8, 9, & 10 Ball races as well as in one pocket.

And even in 14.1, the round robin format pretty much minimizes a player going two and out without ever getting a chance other than the opening break.
Click to expand...

I am saying that every effort should be made to guarantee opportunities at the table. The more often both players can be brought back to the table in a way that makes sense, the more viable and entertaining the competition will be. This will also mean that matches will be much closer and the better player will actually win more often. This makes the game more palatable to everyone.

I am saying that there is not enough back and forth and no, I do not think that players get their chances. This is why we keep jumping to new games.
 
DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
Paul Schofield said:
I am saying that every effort should be made to guarantee opportunities at the table. The more often both players can be brought back to the table in a way that makes sense, the more viable and entertaining the competition will be. This will also mean that matches will be much closer and the better player will actually win more often. This makes the game more palatable to everyone.

I am saying that there is not enough back and forth and no, I do not think that players get their chances. This is why we keep jumping to new games.
Click to expand...

Honestly, we keep jumping to new games? Wasn't it straight pool for decades and 9 Ball for decades after that? I'd hardly call that jumping around from game to game. And the current increase in popularity of 10 Ball is not really about players not getting enough chances in 9 Ball. You know better than most what it is about - no conflict and reducing the luck factor. ;)
 
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Paul Schofield

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Paul Schofield said:
Here is the “FATAL FLAW”: A player is entitled to play on offence and score without limit while an opponent sits idly without influence.
Click to expand...

I think I should be clearer. It is not any one of these but it is the presence of all 3 of these components together that is the "FATAL FLAW". No legitimate successful sport has all 3.
 
manwon

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
Paul Schofield said:
A player is guaranteed to play 18 holes and putt the ball 18 times into the hole. Golf is very good. Imagine if only one golfer was allowed to play hole after hole until he bogied and then and only then could his opponent play.

It is the preservation of the “FATAL FLAW” that is at the very root of all of pool’s troubles resulting in a seemingly endless evolution and parade of pool games. PROOF: The story of billiards path from straight rail all the way to three-cushion is really a story about the “FATAL FLAW”. It is a story about how a simple and beautiful game that everyone could understand and anyone could play evolved to a game that few can understand and even fewer can play. It is a story of how a game developed into a cult game and essentially became irrelevant in the main stream. Save the “FATAL FLAW”

This is also the story of pocket pool games. The “FATAL FLAW” is preserved while pool makes these giant leaps into new territories. Each and every step, the game becomes more and more difficult, alienating more and more potential players and confused spectators. In an effort to minimize the “FATAL FLAW”, the tiny pocket has emerged. This could very well be the death throes for pocket games. The leap to Ten-Ball parallels Billiards trek to its final resting place (Three Cushion Billiards).
Click to expand...



So what do you propose to fix it?

I am not being a smart ass, I am truly interested in your thought's.
 
Paul Schofield

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DogsPlayingPool said:
Honestly, we keep jumping to new games? Wasn't it straight pool for decades and 9 Ball for decades after that? I'd hardly call that jumping around from game to game. And the current increase in popularity of 10 Ball is not really about players not getting enough chances in 9 Ball. You know better than most what it is about - no conflict. ;)
Click to expand...

I must respectfully disagree. It is jumping around. I don't know any legitamate sport that has experienced the gyrations that pool has.

Nine-Ball is far too difficult for the general public to play or understand. How did we get to Nine-Ball? Ten-Ball is more of the same but only worse. The next leap from Nine to Ten-Ball is founded in pool's "FATAL FLAW".

Manwon: I will get there later. I have got to get to work. I have a two hour appointment with my checkbook.
 
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Hustlehard

Hustlehard

Pool Player
Silver Member
Whats up guys i just joined and there seems to be alot of threads talking about how pool is dying and pool is flawed, yall should just quit if you dont like it i think pool is fine the way it is....

Besides phenolic tips and jump cues they gotta go, im only 21 and i feel like the only one that doesnt use them.
 
DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
Paul Schofield said:
I must respectfully disagree. It is jumping around. I don't know any legitamate sport that has experienced the girations that pool has.

Nine-Ball is far too difficult for the general public to play or understand. How did we get to Nine-Ball? Ten-Ball is more of the same but only worse. The next leap from Nine to Ten-Ball is founded in pool's "FATAL FLAW".

Manwon: I will get there later. I have got to get to work. I have a two hour appointment with my checkbook.
Click to expand...

The ability to play a variety of games is in the nature of pool and frankly is one of the things I find appealing and interesting about it. It is similar to poker in that regard. Don't particularly like Hold 'em, play 7 stud, etc.

On the professional level I like this variety as well. I enjoy watching pros play 8 Ball, for example. The recent US Bar Table Championships was quite interesting, with a chance to watch top players compete in several disciplines. And of course there is the Derby, probably one of the most popular pool events going.
 
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classiccues

classiccues

Don't hashtag your broke friends
Silver Member
In golf there are two other constraints.. the weather and the course. The issue with pool is you cannot due anything to these other factors.

Have the opponent shoot b-b's into your ass while you are shooting?

There are plenty of other sports where the opponent has to wait. Ski-jumping, skating, etc.. In straight pool, lets say there is a 150 and out, maybe your opponent should be awarded the same opportunity to tie, forcing a playoff of sorts? You have it in artistic pool, both opponents have chances.

Pool is waining because let's face it, if you don't know the ins and outs it will not interest you. In the spring and summer, a lot of people have alternatives, now with CPU's, PS3's, Wii's, etc.. in the winter people have things to do.

Did you ever think why bowling is more popular than pool? You don't need to run 150 balls, 6 racks of nine ball, etc.. you get a frame, you throw two balls, and then you're done. Have a beer, a hot dog, etc.. your opponent gets the same opportunity and you're back up in 5 minutes. It's non-thinking to a degree. You don't worry about whether your bowling ball is spliced, inlaid, is low deflection, or you're on some magic ball makers 10 year waiting list.

What someone needs to do at ESPN, is show there is more to pool than pool. Do a few segments on cues, how they are made, the collectibility of cues, and pool memorabilia. Do something on tables, how they are made, etc.. Also during a commercial break there should be a 30 second instructional. How to draw, how to follow, how and why on playing position. This way maybe people will at least see there is more to pool than slamming balls into pockets.

JV
 
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