SBE Shenannigans

FeelDaShot · Apr 5, 2019

The tournament is fine the way it is. The payouts are so low that it's not worth a pro's time to play in the open. If they are good enough to easily win the open it would make much more sense for them to try their luck at the pro event or Pro-Am Open.

Low level pro's like Shane Winters have won it in the past and then they move onto to bigger things and never play again. It took Shane many years of trying before he finally won it so it's not like he was stealing. Plus his pro/amateur status is questionable. He's gambled even with many others in the tourney. (Chris Mitchell, Alex Olinger, Jeremy Seaman, etc.)

I have yet to see anyone just walk through the tournament and beat the brakes out of everybody. Anyone that plays good enough to do that is good enough to place in the pro tournament and will likely go that route. It's single elimination races to 5 on a bar box so lots of top amateurs can upset pros in that format which is another reason why it's not that attractive for pros. Not to mention you need to win about 10 matches in a row.

9andout · Apr 5, 2019

Icon of Sin said:
She let him take the win...

Something like this happens every year.

I'm sure. I just saw this one firsthand.

hang-the-9 said:
On the other hand, the person that was beat was just beat by a person quitting anyway so there is that to think about. How would you feel if someone beat you for $100 then tore up the money instead of using it for anything useful? And if the person that was beat went on to win more, well then he was winning those matches so still deserving to continue through. I think it depends on from who's point of view you are looking at things. When you miss, you and your friends are sad, but your opponent and his friends are happy. Just need to look at things from all sides.

There should be a procedure. Followed uniformly.
He lost. The other person she "would've played" did not lose yet. Your analogy is a little off.

Cuebuddy said:
Tkach and Russian Kenny?

Sounds like collusion to me. :wink:

Yes!! LOL was thinking the same thing.

Chili Palmer said:
Does that mean she won the match but let him win the match? I'm confused. If they finished the match and she won she moves on THEN forfeits and Russian Kenny should not have been let back in. If she forfeits the match mid-match that's a different story.

She won.
That's why I think they "may have" fudged the scorecard and never told the TD.
No forfeit / bye was indicated on the chart.
She won their match 2 sets to 1. Bracket says 2-1 him.
I believe the forfeit to her next opponent is the correct move as you stated.
.........
And I have no beef with Kenny. I think he's friggin' hilarious! And like watching him play.
There were a lot of people watching this match.
I just didn't think it was fair to the next player up.
After seeing the bracket I immediately contacted my buddy who was there to see if I "miss-remembered" something. He verified it too.

Chili Palmer · Apr 5, 2019

9andout said:
I'm sure. I just saw this one firsthand.

There should be a procedure. Followed uniformly.
He lost. The other person she "would've played" did not lose yet. Your analogy is a little off.

Yes!! LOL was thinking the same thing.

She won.
That's why I think they "may have" fudged the scorecard and never told the TD.
No forfeit / bye was indicated on the chart.
She won their match 2 sets to 1. Bracket says 2-1 him.
I believe the forfeit to her next opponent is the correct move as you stated.
.........
And I have no beef with Kenny. I think he's friggin' hilarious! And like watching him play.
There were a lot of people watching this match.
I just didn't think it was fair to the next player up.
After seeing the bracket I immediately contacted my buddy who was there to see if I "miss-remembered" something. He verified it too.

Yep, that has bullshit written all over it - on both sides.

Icon of Sin · Apr 5, 2019

hang-the-9 said:
I think the cut off for SBE Open event was a 720 Fargo rating or something, which is in the Open / low rank pro range. I think a bit too high since the average Fargo rating is 550. They should cut that down a bit like they do with Seniors and Super Seniors and Womens. Why lump all the younger males into one giant bowl when women and 55+ get their own tournaments?

550 vs 650 or 700 is not a very close match at all. They should do an under 600 and an over 600 or something in that area. Or do what the BCA open did, just average out the ratings of the entries and stick them in two brackets based on over/under rating from that.

1,000 players, average is 600, 599 and under go one way, 600 and up go the other way.

and if you dont have a fargo rate or arent established?

jasonlaus · Apr 5, 2019

9andout said:
I'm sure. I just saw this one firsthand.

There should be a procedure. Followed uniformly.
He lost. The other person she "would've played" did not lose yet. Your analogy is a little off.

Yes!! LOL was thinking the same thing.

She won.
That's why I think they "may have" fudged the scorecard and never told the TD.
No forfeit / bye was indicated on the chart.
She won their match 2 sets to 1. Bracket says 2-1 him.
I believe the forfeit to her next opponent is the correct move as you stated.
.........
And I have no beef with Kenny. I think he's friggin' hilarious! And like watching him play.
There were a lot of people watching this match.
I just didn't think it was fair to the next player up.
After seeing the bracket I immediately contacted my buddy who was there to see if I "miss-remembered" something. He verified it too.

Quite possibly they were gambling on the match so she had to win.
Jason

Chili Palmer · Apr 5, 2019

jasonlaus said:
Quite possibly they were gambling on the match so she had to win.
Jason

Doesn't matter. They played a match that interfered with the entire bracket. If I was the TD and found out they would be gone and wouldn't return.

Russian Kenny cheated and she let him do it. They just showed their character.

KMRUNOUT · Apr 5, 2019

9andout said:
I was looking through the Amateur Open results and found a surprise.

One score didn't match what I saw.

I watched in person "Player A" lose to another player but still advance.

I've since heard it was because "Player B" had a conflicting Pro match coming up.

This reminds me of when (Soquet?) had to catch a flight and they put Shane back in.

...

I believe "Player B's" next opponent should have gotten the forfeit, and the one who lost should not have advanced. He also went on to cash. What about all the other players who lost in that round?

I was not in the tournament and don't have any other vested interest. But I was there to see him lose firsthand.

Turned out it was good for her to skip the next match though. She went on to win the Pro event.

I watched the match. Those two are friends. Most likely they went into the match knowing there was going to be a forfeit, and they just played to decide what the deal would be. I think this is fine if they already knew the end result and just used the table time to work out their arrangement.

KMRUNOUT

Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

jasonlaus · Apr 5, 2019

KMRUNOUT said:
I watched the match. Those two are friends. Most likely they went into the match knowing there was going to be a forfeit, and they just played to decide what the deal would be. I think this is fine if they already knew the end result and just used the table time to work out their arrangement.

KMRUNOUT

Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

Yep, agree.

Everybody wants to make every situation out to be the end of the world.

Lots of tin pot dictators running around here.
Jason

Chili Palmer · Apr 5, 2019

jasonlaus said:
Yep, agree.

Everybody wants to make every situation out to be the end of the world.

Lots of tin pot dictators running around here.
Jason

The man cheated, end of story. Here we wonder why our sport is not what it used to be. Try that shit in golf and see what happens.

jasonlaus · Apr 5, 2019

Chili Palmer said:
The man cheated, end of story. Here we wonder why our sport is not what it used to be. Try that shit in golf and see what happens.

At least you guys make me laugh
Jason

cardiac kid · Apr 5, 2019

Well, the "result" you're unhappy about is nothing unusual. Saturday night I had three matches all scheduled within one hour. As I already cashed in the Open, I CHOSE to forfeit my next Open match and play a Super Senior match instead. During my Super Senior match, me and my opponent tried to "postpone" the final set so we could both play our Senior matches. The Senior match was worth $500. The SS match was not on the money line yet. Near the end of my Senior match, the TD came to my table and asked what I wished to do about the SS match. Told him to allow my opponent to win so at least one of us could advance. He did and the score showed 2 - 0 for my opponent. It was actually a forfeit. My opponent went on to finish 4th in the SS.

My bet is anyone who has played SBE as long as I have would have done exactly the same thing. You need to talk with both players in question before questioning the result. Incidentally, this was the second straight year both of my opponents playing me for the cheese refused to do a small saver. Thanks to both of you for the result!!!

Lyn

hang-the-9 · Apr 5, 2019

FeelDaShot said:
That defeats the whole idea of it being an amateur open. In your case, someone with a 599 rating is the favorite to win their tourney. Meanwhile someone with a 650 in the other bracket is a serious underdog.

At that point, it's the same as a handicapped tournament and it gets into all of the BS involved with improperly handicapping players.

Also, in my area of the country, no one uses fargo ratings or reports tournament results. So, I don't have a rating. That either means I'll no longer be able to play or they will start guessing at peoples ratings which is not going to work at all.

Better to have a 100 point rating difference in two categories than a 200 or 300 in one, a lot more even matches.

9andout · Apr 5, 2019

KMRUNOUT said:
I watched the match. Those two are friends. Most likely they went into the match knowing there was going to be a forfeit, and they just played to decide what the deal would be. I think this is fine if they already knew the end result and just used the table time to work out their arrangement.

KMRUNOUT

Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

Who knows? But why would she give him shit about the rack for 5 min before the game to put her on the hill?
No reason for that if it was a forgone conclusion.

cardiac kid said:
Well, the "result" you're unhappy about is nothing unusual. Saturday night I had three matches all scheduled within one hour. As I already cashed in the Open, I CHOSE to forfeit my next Open match and play a Super Senior match instead. During my Super Senior match, me and my opponent tried to "postpone" the final set so we could both play our Senior matches. The Senior match was worth $500. The SS match was not on the money line yet. Near the end of my Senior match, the TD came to my table and asked what I wished to do about the SS match. Told him to allow my opponent to win so at least one of us could advance. He did and the score showed 2 - 0 for my opponent. It was actually a forfeit. My opponent went on to finish 4th in the SS.

My bet is anyone who has played SBE as long as I have would have done exactly the same thing. You need to talk with both players in question before questioning the result. Incidentally, this was the second straight year both of my opponents playing me for the cheese refused to do a small saver. Thanks to both of you for the result!!!

Lyn

Oh well. Def didn't see any TD discussion.

hang-the-9 · Apr 5, 2019

Icon of Sin said:
and if you dont have a fargo rate or arent established?

That is why we should have as many events and tours report into Fargo.

Like travel, no passport, no entry.

If players were honest we would not have many issues. But we seem to encourage cheating, "stealing" and sharking as "well you know what you are getting when you play pool".

SBE Shenannigans

FeelDaShot

AzB Silver Member

9andout

Gunnin' for a 3 pack!!

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member

Icon of Sin

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg

Chili Palmer

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KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member

hang-the-9

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9andout

Gunnin' for a 3 pack!!

hang-the-9

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