Tell me something Hu, how unlevel does a table have to be, before a ball will start to roll off? What's the give or take, you know, the +/-?
How level is "level" for pool tables?
- Thread starter jviss
- Start date
Tell me something Hu, how unlevel does a table have to be, before a ball will start to roll off? What's the give or take, you know, the +/-?
This is the point none of you seem to understand, a ball roll off on Simonis 760, may not roll off on 860, and certainly wouldn't roll off on Championship Titan cloth, so a table needs to be leveled to within WHAT standard so that no ball will roll off???
How pregnant does a woman need to be described as pregnant?
She either is or isn't. There really is no in between or wiggle room.
A pool table either is level or not. It's only a question of how much
a table is or is not level. There's no in between and table owners
tend to accept how their table(s) turn out but make no mistakes. A
pool table is either level or isn't & most owners just wind up settling.
She either is or isn't. There really is no in between or wiggle room.
A pool table either is level or not. It's only a question of how much
a table is or is not level. There's no in between and table owners
tend to accept how their table(s) turn out but make no mistakes. A
pool table is either level or isn't & most owners just wind up settling.
I have no idea what you are suggesting. No table is perfect, the question is how much imperfection is noticable, easily measurable, significant or acceptable.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
That would be correct, what is the allowable tolerances. If a ball won't start rolling off at the ends of the slate if it reads .0020ths high, is .0015ths acceptable. If a ball won't roll away from the side rails lengthwise unless the slate reads .0015ths high towards the side rails, is .0010ths accessible?????
That cruise ship is in some ruff waters:thumbup:
I don't see it that way. Pregnancy is one or the other. Error in table flatness is a measurable quantity that could be zero but never is. You can set a limit on the allowed error -- I mentioned being able to shoot a slow-roller to the other end of the table to hit a quarter ball without being surprised-- and the table will either pass or fail that test, but you can't reasonably ask for zero error in levelness.
If either of you think you may be pregnant you need to get to a doctor and find out one way or the other.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Provided cloth grain tracking don't roll the ball off track!! And it DOES happen.
Your boys say .005"
Your boys at Diamond say .005" per section. I doubt anyone sets them up that way but one side could be a total of .010" off level and be considered level to factory tolerances. Across the table from side to side .005". As I mentioned, those of us in no rush can let the slate rest and tweak it another time or two after the first leveling, something a traveling road show doesn't have the luxury of doing. I don't know or care how level a table has to be to normally prevent roll off. More factors than the slate come into play so I want it the best I can get it, not "good enough".
I have been known to level slate in the old days, I spent more time leveling and trueing Meehanite. I would get the same distance that Diamond is fine with .005" or .010 to .0005". We have ran this rabbit a handful of times before. Pool tables aren't exactly rocket science. Neither is a half million dollar or so machine but it is quite a bit closer to rocket science! Try leveling twenty feet or so of cast iron then come talk to me about leveling things.
Hu
Your boys at Diamond say .005" per section. I doubt anyone sets them up that way but one side could be a total of .010" off level and be considered level to factory tolerances. Across the table from side to side .005". As I mentioned, those of us in no rush can let the slate rest and tweak it another time or two after the first leveling, something a traveling road show doesn't have the luxury of doing. I don't know or care how level a table has to be to normally prevent roll off. More factors than the slate come into play so I want it the best I can get it, not "good enough".
I have been known to level slate in the old days, I spent more time leveling and trueing Meehanite. I would get the same distance that Diamond is fine with .005" or .010 to .0005". We have ran this rabbit a handful of times before. Pool tables aren't exactly rocket science. Neither is a half million dollar or so machine but it is quite a bit closer to rocket science! Try leveling twenty feet or so of cast iron then come talk to me about leveling things.
Hu
Is that anything like leveling a 22' shuffle board, side to side as well as end to end? Because I've done that over 500 times as well. There's a difference between leveling a pool table to the point that no ball will roll off, then there's anal leveling of a pool table, to where again....a ball won't roll of, tell me, which one is better?
For those who like to see machines in action, here is a pretty good video that talks about flatness from dining room tables down to a surface that is flat within one atom. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWa3F4bKJsE
I wonder how much a Diamond with a single-crystal diamond surface would cost.
I wonder how much a Diamond with a single-crystal diamond surface would cost.
And then we throw on a cheap woolen fabric with a backing like the savages we are.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Funny, not one word about level!
I think they are getting it flat first and then (if needed for the application) going for level. For pool tables it seems that flat and level are worked on simultaneously but the thing tested for is level because no tool is available at most installations to check flat alone. Of course if a table is level, it has to be flat (ignoring the curvature of the local gravitational field).
Last edited:
Well here's my take on this subject. No amount of flatness to the degree you're refering to can be performed on a pool table, I will however agree to the fact that a table can be leveled to the point that a ball won't roll off track. I don't care how FLAT a slate is ground, the first second you mount that slate to the frame of the table with screws or bolts, then install the cloth and rails....your ground to perfectly flat just rolled out the door! There is an art to understanding how to marry up a flat ground slate and the frame of a pool table, with rails and cloth. It's called knowledge, because pool table mechanics have to work with the pieces of the pool table at hand, because we live in the real world, not some fantasy world that if a slate is ground the perfection of "FLAT" then just assembling the rest of the pool table is no big deal!
wandered off
I wandered off laughing about the shuffleboard and missed the question. Anal to the nth degree is of course better. When slate is just "good enough" and continues to move around after the person doing the leveling goes away it may no longer be just good enough, it may roll off now. When the table itself moves a little in settling, good enough may not be good enough. When the floor moves under the new weight, just good enough may no longer be good enough. When some person hammers roofing nails into plywood as stabilizers under The feet of a table on carpet, this "base" may move or the few points it is sitting on settle into the floor. Then good enough is no longer good enough!
There is a little things called tolerance. The closer you are to minimum tolerance the less likely you are to have other issues with an assembly. When you combine things that are on the outer edge of good enough then the total may not be good enough anymore!
There is no question, anal is better! Today and in the future. Nobody wants a table that rolls off or to have a mechanic out over and over because he is willing to settle for "good enough".
Hu
I wandered off laughing about the shuffleboard and missed the question. Anal to the nth degree is of course better. When slate is just "good enough" and continues to move around after the person doing the leveling goes away it may no longer be just good enough, it may roll off now. When the table itself moves a little in settling, good enough may not be good enough. When the floor moves under the new weight, just good enough may no longer be good enough. When some person hammers roofing nails into plywood as stabilizers under The feet of a table on carpet, this "base" may move or the few points it is sitting on settle into the floor. Then good enough is no longer good enough!
There is a little things called tolerance. The closer you are to minimum tolerance the less likely you are to have other issues with an assembly. When you combine things that are on the outer edge of good enough then the total may not be good enough anymore!
There is no question, anal is better! Today and in the future. Nobody wants a table that rolls off or to have a mechanic out over and over because he is willing to settle for "good enough".
Hu
Glen, I don't think a lot of people have any idea how flexible the slate on a table is. I know you do and I'm sure you use this flexibility to adjust it to be a good flat and level playing surface. I think a lot of these people think if you get the frame and slate level it will be flat too and not roll off but as you know this just isn't true.
I get a laugh out of these critics in my industry, they for the most part don't know shit from shinola, but that don't hold back their expert advice
