A family of drills based on running racks

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
PS: What do you think of the progressive approach vs. the scored approach?
The score system from 100 is too complicated for me. That involves writing things down and keeping track.
If you don't miss, you don't need to write anything down. :grin-square:

You only need to record deductions for the racks you don't run; and when you are done, just add the numbers.

I can see for a practice drill, (as opposed to a rating drill), it would actually be beneficial to do all the racks, or at least a few levels past where the rating end up settling at. This is so a player can practice at a harder level for a brief period.
Agreed. It is certainly good practice to run through racks in several levels above your average progressive level to get you past your comfort level periodically.

Catch you later,
Dave
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would like to see one more level..

level : EFREN :)

play carom 8-ball. shoot your colors and 8 in from cue ball carom. normal 8-ball rules otherwise..
I tried that yesterday and could not get it done in 2 hours that i tried. Fun game but super hard to make all after break..
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would like to see one more level..

level : EFREN :)

play carom 8-ball. shoot your colors and 8 in from cue ball carom. normal 8-ball rules otherwise..
I tried that yesterday and could not get it done in 2 hours that i tried. Fun game but super hard to make all after break..

Ha ha, I've seen the 15 ball ghost called both God and Efren on here throughout the years.

There was a thread years ago, maybe 15, where Bartram and/or Donny were discussing the difficulties of the higher level ghosts. I think whichever one was writing (I forgot which of the two), was at something like the 12 ball ghost. And I recall he said the 12 ball ghost was easier than the 11 ball ghost (or the 13 easier than the 12, forget which), because the reaction of the break was much better on the higher count ghost.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Why the ominous music Dr. Dave?
When I picked it out I thought it was cool, but several people have commented that it sounds ominous or eerie.

I think I'll continue to use it just to keep people in fear a little, :grin-square:
Dave
 

johnnysd

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I watched your video, good job making it.


I'll have to say your style of play seems off to me. When you have shallow angle cut shots you play them with dead draw or dead follow according to your CB graphic. You could have gotten nearly identical CB paths with some spin on the CB. I know there is a lot of debate on this topic, but I don't think any pros would play with dead draw/follow when a tip of spin would get them the same result.

;)

Why would someone use English unless they had to? J
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn't have time to go through the entire thing but was able to mess with it for about 20 minutes. Some things I noted.

There are 140 balls to be made, maybe the scoring system could be based off that number. I.E. if you miss a ball you just go to the next drill until you've done them all and then see what your score is, similar to bowliards.

Or, you could run through all the drills taking BIH (or kitchen, or leave as is) if you miss and then see how many innings it takes.

And how about racking 7 balls like a 7 ball rack instead of 6 balls with one in back?

Just random thoughts. I'm hoping to have time next week to run through all the drills a few times.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
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Silver Member
There are 140 balls to be made, maybe the scoring system could be based off that number. I.E. if you miss a ball you just go to the next drill until you've done them all and then see what your score is, similar to bowliards.
I like starting at 100 and deducting only the number of points left on the table after each miss, for these reasons:
- Each of the four BU Exams has a maximum score of 100, which should be the case for any "exam."
- If you play well, there is less to score and calculate since you only need to record something when you miss.

Or, you could run through all the drills taking BIH (or kitchen, or leave as is) if you miss and then see how many innings it takes.
I like that as another possible variation.

And how about racking 7 balls like a 7 ball rack instead of 6 balls with one in back?
Bob and I thought of that, but we wanted to keep the racking options triangular for simplicity and familiarity. It is very easy to just add the extra ball. Also, doesn't a classic 7-ball rack have lots of wired balls?

I'm hoping to have time next week to run through all the drills a few times.
After you do, please let us know if you think the level order and ratings are appropriate.

Thanks for the input,
Dave
 

cjr3559

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob and I thought of that, but we wanted to keep the racking options triangular for simplicity and familiarity. It is very easy to just add the extra ball. Also, doesn't a classic 7-ball rack have lots of wired balls?

I think the circular 7-ball rack does, the center (money) ball has a tendency to drop on the break from what I’ve seen in those old classic ESPN matches from the 80s.

Which brings me back to the idea of spotting all balls after the break. I’m spotting everything that goes down. (foot, head, center for 1, 2, 3 balls down etc)

Reason being that there’s a good progressive nature of the levels especially early on and keeping balls down kind of removes that.

For example on level 2 you have to basically make 1 ball runs.

Level 3, around 1-2 two ball runs

Level 4, two ball runs

Level 5, three balls

Level 6, four with limited options

Level 7, 4-5 balls

Level 8, five balls with limited options

Level 9, five balls with more obstructions/traffic/possible clustering

Level 10 is where it kicks in a notch for the beginner/amateur with the rotation aspect.

Don’t see myself above level 8 or 9 anytime soon so I don’t have much of an opinion on the higher levels because they’re way too difficult to consistently accomplish (if at all!)
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Which brings me back to the idea of spotting all balls after the break. I’m spotting everything that goes down. (foot, head, center for 1, 2, 3 balls down etc)
I like rewarding people for a good break, especially with the 9-ball and 15-ball racks, by not requiring pocketed balls to be spotted. Making a ball on the break is an important skill in 8-ball and 9-ball.

Thanks again for your input,
Dave
 

cjr3559

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I like rewarding people for a good break, especially with the 9-ball and 15-ball racks, by not requiring pocketed balls to be spotted. Making a ball on the break is an important skill in 8-ball and 9-ball.

Thanks again for your input,
Dave

I know the rules are set, but regarding level 6, do you think an extra BiH would be fair?

In level 5 at the minimum you need to pocket two groups of three (or all six w/o BiH would be nice...)

But when you get to level 6 the minimum is pocketing 4 balls while contending with the challenge of extra non-object obstacles.

I almost feel like I can complete level 7 more easily but I need more time to test.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
I know the rules are set, but regarding level 6, do you think an extra BiH would be fair?

In level 5 at the minimum you need to pocket two groups of three (or all six w/o BiH would be nice...)

But when you get to level 6 the minimum is pocketing 4 balls while contending with the challenge of extra non-object obstacles.

I almost feel like I can complete level 7 more easily but I need more time to test.
I'll be curious to see what you think after more testing.

To somebody that likes and excels at 8-ball, Level 6 is extremely easy, getting to pick the group and being able to start with BIH. I personally think an additional BIH would make it a little too easy, especially given that you only need 2 of 3 racks to advance.

But I am curious to see what others think.

Regards,
Dave
 

johnnysd

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll be curious to see what you think after more testing.

To somebody that likes and excels at 8-ball, Level 6 is extremely easy, getting to pick the group and being able to start with BIH. I personally think an additional BIH would make it a little too easy, especially given that you only need 2 of 3 racks to advance.

But I am curious to see what others think.

Regards,
Dave

I think level 6 is way easier than level 7 in my mind, especially since the 8 is very very unlikely to be tied up and with only 3 balls for the runout I would thinkno break out shots are needed. BIH in league play with this same situation I would be super frustrated if I did not get out. Unless there is something really unusual like 2 of my balls being blocked or 8 locked up as well as another one of my balls, in open racks I would think I would get out greater than 3/4 maybe much higher.
 

David in FL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll be curious to see what you think after more testing.

To somebody that likes and excels at 8-ball, Level 6 is extremely easy, getting to pick the group and being able to start with BIH. I personally think an additional BIH would make it a little too easy, especially given that you only need 2 of 3 racks to advance.

But I am curious to see what others think.

Regards,
Dave

Even though I dropped one on level 6, it was just a silly dogged shot. It’s easier than level 7 and an additional BIH would simply make it into two, back-to-back, BIH 2-ball runs, which would really make it easier than level 4.
 
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iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
On my trial I did level 6 and 7, and at the time level 7 was no extra BIH's after the break. (Now its one extra BIH). The way I played it, level 6 was like 3 times easier than level 7, IMO.

PS, I haven't really played 8 ball since I was a banger. And level 6 was still easy as pie.
 

cjr3559

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for then replies, I’ve been starting at level 4 as a warmup.

Level 5 is mostly no problem. I can clear all six balls without BiH about 10% of the time, but I’ve really got no hard data yet.

I successfully made my first rack at level 6 but went 0 for 5 right afterward. I either got tripped up by poor shape or a flat-out miss.

I can appreciate the 8 ball strategy aspect but at least two of the times I got clusters, either a stripe/solid, or the 8 and something else.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks for then replies, I’ve been starting at level 4 as a warmup.

Level 5 is mostly no problem. I can clear all six balls without BiH about 10% of the time, but I’ve really got no hard data yet.

I successfully made my first rack at level 6 but went 0 for 5 right afterward. I either got tripped up by poor shape or a flat-out miss.

I can appreciate the 8 ball strategy aspect but at least two of the times I got clusters, either a stripe/solid, or the 8 and something else.
Are you able to post a video online? It would be interesting to see what is causing you the most difficulty. Maybe you could film 3-5 attempts of both Level 6 and Level 7? If you do, we might be able to offer helpful advice.

If you want help with CB control, see the videos and info here:
CB Control Tutorial

And if you want help with speed control, see the video and info here:
speed control advice

That might help.

Regards,
Dave
 

markjames

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you

Excellent work as ever
I like how what seemed to be an idea
While thinking aloud by one person
Turned into a complete-with video-
Exam by another person

Lots of good ideas, someday maybe
Five months later- no pool
 
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